Fact that 1560 Geneva Bible is better than 1611 edition in some places

[JD731]

The majority of the Church of England makers of the KJV were Calvinists, and yet according to your KJV-only reasoning you would blindly trust their textual criticism decisions and translation decisions.

Charles Spurgeon was more sound in doctrine than the Church of England makers of the KJV were.

I do not know how you have missed this. I trust God, not Anglicans.

 

[Logos1560]

JD731, will you now acknowledge the fact that the 1560 Geneva Bible is more accurate than the 1611 edition of the KJV in at least some places?

KJV-only advocates make no sound, convincing case that two errors from the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible (1 Kings 11:5, 2 Kings 24:19) would remain uncorrected for over 15 years in KJV editions if they had actually been corrected in the text that the KJV translators prepared for the printers.

God would not have been responsible for those errors, which would be evidence that God did not control completely the process of the making of the 1611 edition of the KJV.

 

[Logos1560]

I trust God, not Anglicans.

The Scriptures do not state nor teach that God was completely and directly responsible for all the word choices in the 1611 edition of the KJV.

The KJV translators (along with Bishop Thomas Bilson and Archbishop Richard Bancroft who may have changed some of the translators' decisions) were responsible for the word choices in the 1611 edition (excluding errors introduced by the printer).

KJV-only author Phil Stringer asserted: “The translation is only as accurate as the honesty, objectivity, and scholarship of the translators allow. The translators become the priests for the reader” (Unbroken Bible, p. 166).

You have not demonstrated that God states and teaches your KJV-only opinions.

 

[JD731]

The Hebrew and Greek texts stand in authority over any and all English translations!

The simple ones who most generally get saved cannot read Hebrew and Greek. Have you ever heard it said by Jesus Christ, "I thank you Father that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes?"

Paul said in one place, "the world by wisdom knew not God."

Jesus said to the Jews, "except a man become as a little child he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

He said to the Hebrew and Greek speakers of his day, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

Do you get the feeling that the Greek and Hebrew speakers put much more stock in their abilities than Jesus?

it would be a better stewardship of our time to learn about God from the KJV and then learn a language that people actually speak and take what you have learned to them in their language.

 

[JD731]

The Scriptures do not state nor teach that God was completely and directly responsible for all the word choices in the 1611 edition of the KJV.

The KJV translators (along with Bishop Thomas Bilson and Archbishop Richard Bancroft who may have changed some of the translators' decisions) were responsible for the word choices in the 1611 edition (excluding errors introduced by the printer).

KJV-only author Phil Stringer asserted: “The translation is only as accurate as the honesty, objectivity, and scholarship of the translators allow. The translators become the priests for the reader” (Unbroken Bible, p. 166).

You have not demonstrated that God states and teaches your KJV-only opinions.

Have you ever noticed that you quote everyone but God?

 

[Logos1560]

Have you ever noticed that you quote everyone but God?

In other words, does your diversionary question acknowledge that my quotations from the KJV are not directly quoting God?

The KJV is a translation just as the 1537 Matthew's Bible is a translation, just as the 1560 Geneva Bible is a translation, and just as the NKJV is a translation of the word of God.

 

[JD731]

In other words, does your diversionary question acknowledge that my quotations from the KJV are not directly quoting God?

The KJV is a translation just as the 1537 Matthew's Bible is a translation, just as the 1560 Geneva Bible is a translation, and just as the NKJV is a translation of the word of God.

I don’t think anyone believes this but Jesus said in John 6 that the words he speaks are Spirit and they are life. Hardly anyone reading John 6 gets the fact that the words must abide in a person in order for them to have life. The bread, the body of Jesus, and the words are synonyms in the text and must be received into the body if one will live eternally. Outside the body they are ineffective for the purpose. This fact makes the words of scripture more than just prose and poetry, though they are that too.

As smart as some of your folks are I have no confidence that you have the ability to translate the spiritual content that is the scriptures. If it is in the Greek language only then most of us simple ones have no hope.

 

[Conan]

The simple ones who most generally get saved cannot read Hebrew and Greek. Have you ever heard it said by Jesus Christ, "I thank you Father that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes?"

Paul said in one place, "the world by wisdom knew not God."

Jesus said to the Jews, "except a man become as a little child he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

He said to the Hebrew and Greek speakers of his day, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

Do you get the feeling that the Greek and Hebrew speakers put much more stock in their abilities than Jesus?

it would be a better stewardship of our time to learn about God from the KJV and then learn a language that people actually speak and take what you have learned to them in their language.

These words were recorded in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. Without them they would have never been recorded. In other words, had they not been recorded in Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew we would not have them in English today. I would say they were pretty important.

 

[Logos1560]

As smart as some of your folks are I have no confidence that you have the ability to translate the spiritual content that is the scriptures. If it is in the Greek language only then most of us simple ones have no hope.

Your strawman assertion is incorrect. It is not being asserted that the word of God is "in the Greek language only."

What has been clearly and soundly noted is that the preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations. The KJV translators themselves acknowledged that truth in their preface to the 1611. The translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611 did not replace and are not superior to the preserved original-language words of Scripture.

The same guiding of the Holy Spirit available to the pre-1611 English Bible translators and to the KJV translators (if they were believers) is still available to believers today. God is still the same today as He was before 1611 and in 1611.

 

[JD731]

Your strawman assertion is incorrect. It is not being asserted that the word of God is "in the Greek language only."

What has been clearly and soundly noted is that the preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations. The KJV translators themselves acknowledged that truth in their preface to the 1611. The translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611 did not replace and are not superior to the preserved original-language words of Scripture.

The same guiding of the Holy Spirit available to the pre-1611 English Bible translators and to the KJV translators (if they were believers) is still available to believers today. God is still the same today as He was before 1611 and in 1611.

It is asserted in Acts 2 at the beginning of the New Testament that the word of God is spiritual and is life because when the apostles preached it in 17 different languages at the same time, which included Hebrew and Greek, that which was preached to Hebrews only, gave life to those who received it and obeyed it. See here.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them (the apostles) about three thousand souls. How were they added? The Holy Ghost entered their bodies as a permanent eternal member as he did the apostles in John 20.

The quotes from the OT to the Hebrews were translated by God but there was no emphasis on one particular language Luke wrote the history of what happened in the Greek language but for the spiritual understanding of what it all means we will need to compare scriptures because he gives his word in precepts, here a little and there a little. Who would argue that what the apostles said in one language and heard in 17 languages was not translated by God. It was much more important to God that his word was heard and understood at this point than what language it was in. The confirming sign here for the Hebrews was the miraculous miracle of tongues. Remember, the Jews require a sign but the Greeks seek after wisdom. (1 Cor 1:22)

I think you are anti biblical in your philosophy and your insistence that God cannot give us his pure word in our own language when he began his age of salvation after the cross of doing just that. What we do not need is scores of men writing translations in their own words in the same language and after their own misunderstandings and calling it the word of God. This is the characteristic of these last days.

 

[JesusFan]

Well, how has reading it helped you?

Allowed me to better appreciate the deeper things of the scriptures

 

[JesusFan]

Well, why did you not address me in Aramaic, or Hebrew, or Greek. We are talking about him and what he expects of us, no?

He gave to us His words written in the Original languages to use to study with and to learn from, as ALL translations based upon them MUST bow before their final authority!

 

[JesusFan]

Calvinists are not wiser and more knowledgeable in the scriptures than anyone. The reason other Calvinists champion Spurgeon is because he is one of them (most of the time).

So who among the Kjvo crowd would be compared to a Spurgeon, or a Burgeon, as neither of them were Kjvo!

 

[JesusFan]

It is asserted in Acts 2 at the beginning of the New Testament that the word of God is spiritual and is life because when the apostles preached it in 17 different languages at the same time, which included Hebrew and Greek, that which was preached to Hebrews only, gave life to those who received it and obeyed it. See here.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them (the apostles) about three thousand souls. How were they added? The Holy Ghost entered their bodies as a permanent eternal member as he did the apostles in John 20.

The quotes from the OT to the Hebrews were translated by God but there was no emphasis on one particular language Luke wrote the history of what happened in the Greek language but for the spiritual understanding of what it all means we will need to compare scriptures because he gives his word in precepts, here a little and there a little. Who would argue that what the apostles said in one language and heard in 17 languages was not translated by God. It was much more important to God that his word was heard and understood at this point than what language it was in. The confirming sign here for the Hebrews was the miraculous miracle of tongues. Remember, the Jews require a sign but the Greeks seek after wisdom. (1 Cor 1:22)

I think you are anti biblical in your philosophy and your insistence that God cannot give us his pure word in our own language when he began his age of salvation after the cross of doing just that. What we do not need is scores of men writing translations in their own words in the same language and after their own misunderstandings and calling it the word of God. This is the characteristic of these last days.

The Holy Spirit ONLY inspired the Originals, and only in those languages, as NO translation was inspired nor superior to the original languages texts sources!

 

[JesusFan]

I do not know how you have missed this. I trust God, not Anglicans.

You trust in their decisions regarding textual criticism fully and blindly though!

 

[JesusFan]

The simple ones who most generally get saved cannot read Hebrew and Greek. Have you ever heard it said by Jesus Christ, "I thank you Father that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes?"

Paul said in one place, "the world by wisdom knew not God."

Jesus said to the Jews, "except a man become as a little child he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

He said to the Hebrew and Greek speakers of his day, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

Do you get the feeling that the Greek and Hebrew speakers put much more stock in their abilities than Jesus?

it would be a better stewardship of our time to learn about God from the KJV and then learn a language that people actually speak and take what you have learned to them in their language.

It is far better that the translators and pastors and teachers if possible learn and use the Hebrew and Greek texts then just any English translation!

 

[JesusFan]

I don’t think anyone believes this but Jesus said in John 6 that the words he speaks are Spirit and they are life. Hardly anyone reading John 6 gets the fact that the words must abide in a person in order for them to have life. The bread, the body of Jesus, and the words are synonyms in the text and must be received into the body if one will live eternally. Outside the body they are ineffective for the purpose. This fact makes the words of scripture more than just prose and poetry, though they are that too.

As smart as some of your folks are I have no confidence that you have the ability to translate the spiritual content that is the scriptures. If it is in the Greek language only then most of us simple ones have no hope.

Did the translators use those Hebrew and Greek texts then, or just used prior English texts to translate?

 

[JD731]

Did the translators use those Hebrew and Greek texts then, or just used prior English texts to translate?

Think! Where are the translations taking place and into what language? Not in Asia, or Africa, or Europe. Most new translations show up in English. I wonder why?

 

[JesusFan]

Think! Where are the translations taking place and into what language? Not in Asia, or Africa, or Europe. Most new translations show up in English. I wonder why?

is it better to translate off the original languages, or off the Kjv then?

 

[JD731]

is it better to translate off the original languages, or off the Kjv then?

You ignored my question by changing the subject.

Can you trust God with your soul, and whose salvation is said to be in his testimony in his own words, but you cannot trust him in translation? God says in Isaiah 55 that his ways are not our ways and after reading his words for years I know that his ways does not include scores of translations from Hebrew and Greek into the same English language with methods that paraphrase and condense and exchange and omit and even incorporate doubts about the authenticity of the source texts in places. Simple ones like me do not have a chance if we must prove God by comparing the English translation with the original language texts.

I know you seem to have a desire to be among the smartest people in the room but it does not seem wise to present God as unable to preserve his word because he first wrote them in another language and now he is stuck with it.

You do know there is a devil who was bold enough to tempt Jesus Christ by quoting scripture (with a word or two left out) to him in Matt 4, don't you?