SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
how do you understand KOSMOS here?
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The Gospel in Six Minutes
- Thread starter KenH
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how do you understand KOSMOS here?
Mathetes66
Member
Why did the prophets and the apostles and the apostle Paul & Jesus Himself command people to repent and believe if they were incapable of repenting and believing. Does God believe FOR US? Does God repent for us? Does God make the decision for us so we have no choice but to robotically become a Christian? The obvious answers are no.
Godly sorrow brings us to a point where we can repent. Repentance PREPARES one to be saved; it does not save someone but leads to salvation, which is what God does.
2 Cor 7:8-10 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it—for I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while— 9I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Did God cause the Corinthian believers sorrow or did Paul? The sorrow that Paul caused led them to a point of repentance because it was a sorrow ACCORDING to God's will not a sorrow of the world. When a person is brought to a point of sorrowing over sin that lines up with the will of God, it then produces a repentance without regret. This genuine repentance, this change of mind LEADS TO salvation but it doesn't produce salvation. Faith in Christ by the grace of God brings about salvation and this salvation is not of ourselves. Sorrow over sin that lines up with the will of God, repentance that is the means leading to salvation and faith in Christ IS NOT sharing or getting credit for our salvation. 2 Cor 7 is plainly clear about that.
Godly sorrow brings us to a point where we can repent. Repentance PREPARES one to be saved; it does not save someone but leads to salvation, which is what God does.
2 Cor 7:8-10 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it—for I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while— 9I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Did God cause the Corinthian believers sorrow or did Paul? The sorrow that Paul caused led them to a point of repentance because it was a sorrow ACCORDING to God's will not a sorrow of the world. When a person is brought to a point of sorrowing over sin that lines up with the will of God, it then produces a repentance without regret. This genuine repentance, this change of mind LEADS TO salvation but it doesn't produce salvation. Faith in Christ by the grace of God brings about salvation and this salvation is not of ourselves. Sorrow over sin that lines up with the will of God, repentance that is the means leading to salvation and faith in Christ IS NOT sharing or getting credit for our salvation. 2 Cor 7 is plainly clear about that.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"but not every man in the world is here meant, or all the individuals of human nature; for all are not the objects of God's special love, which is here designed, as appears from the instance and evidence of it, the gift of his Son: nor is Christ God's gift to every one; for to whomsoever he gives his Son, he gives all things freely with him; which is not the case of every man. Nor is human nature here intended, in opposition to, and distinction from, the angelic nature; for though God has showed a regard to fallen men, and not to fallen angels, and has provided a Saviour for the one, and not for the other; and Christ has assumed the nature of men, and not angels; yet not for the sake of all men, but the spiritual seed of Abraham; and besides, it will not be easily proved, that human nature is ever called the world: nor is the whole body of the chosen ones, as consisting of Jews and Gentiles, here designed; for though these are called the world, John 6:33; and are the objects of God's special love, and to them Christ is given, and they are brought to believe in him, and shall never perish, but shall be saved with an everlasting salvation; yet rather the Gentiles particularly, and God's elect among them, are meant; who are often called "the world", and "the whole world", and "the nations of the world", as distinct from the Jews; see Rom 11:12, compared with Matt 6:32. ...
and it should be observed, that our Lord was now discoursing with a Jewish Rabbi, and that he is opposing a commonly received notion of theirs, that when the Messiah came, the Gentiles should have no benefit or advantage by him, only the Israelites; so far should they be from it, that, according to their sense, the most dreadful judgments, calamities, and curses, should befall them; yea, hell and eternal damnation."
- from John Gill's commentary on John 3:16, Gill's Bible Commentary
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
John calvin disagrees will Gill
KenH
Well-Known Member
You asked, "Why did the prophets and the apostles and the apostle Paul & Jesus Himself command people to repent and believe if they were incapable of repenting and believing."
"Responsibility presupposes accountability, but accountability does not presuppose ability or freedom. Rather, accountability presupposes one who demands accountability. Since God demands accountability – since he will reward righteousness and punish wickedness – man is accountable. Since God is sovereign, he decides what he wants to decide, and whether man has free will or not has no logical place in the discussion.
For many people, now the question becomes one about justice. They insist that it would be unjust for God to punish those whom he has predestined to damnation, and who could not decide or perform otherwise. Paul anticipates this objection in Romans 9:19, and writes, "One of you will say to me: 'Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?'" He replies, "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" (v. 20). God rules by absolute authority – no one can hinder him, and no one can question him. This is true because God is the creator of all that exists, and he has the right to do whatever he wishes with his creation: "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?" (v. 21)."
Vincent Cheung, Systematic Theology
You asked, "Did God cause the Corinthian believers sorrow or did Paul?"
Repentance and faith are wrought by God, not of man.
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Timothy 2:25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Not only are repentance and faith wrought by God, but so also all of the good works that His elect do.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Salvation is of the LORD(Jonah2:9), not of man.
Everything is of the Lord. God, not man, is sovereign.
Daniel 4:35 and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isaiah 45:7-9 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? (all emphases mine)
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KenH
Well-Known Member
It has already been previously established in this thread that I am not a "Calvinist".
KenH
Well-Known Member
The natural man wouldn't, but that is not a problem at all for those whom God chose for salvation: Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth (emphases mine)
37818
Well-Known Member
in other words, there was no good news in those six minutes in that video. Otherwise what was it?
KenH
Well-Known Member
You don't consider the salvation that Christ procured for the ungodly to be good news?
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Personally, I find it to be extremely good news that my salvation is not dependent upon my performance in any way, shape, or form, but is based entirely on Christ's finished work on my behalf and His perfect righteousness imputed to me - without cost.
Isaiah 55:1-2 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
37818
Well-Known Member
I do, as the general redemption to secure the gift for His chosen, Ephesians 1:4. So what was said in the video that the not yet saved would know it included them prior to their faith?
KenH
Well-Known Member
God summons the elect usually through the preaching of the gospel. Now, Christians do not first learn the identities of the elect, and then proceed to preach the gospel only to them. Rather, they preach the gospel "to all creation," and "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:15-16). Therefore, whether it is in the form of public oration, private conversation, written literature, or other means, the preaching or the publication of the gospel goes forth to both the elect and the non-elect. The elect will come to faith in Jesus Christ; the non-elect will either reject the message, or produce a temporary and false profession of faith.
For this reason, theologians distinguish between the OUTWARD CALLING and the INWARD CALLING. The outward calling refers to the preaching of the gospel by men, and is presented to both the elect and the non-elect. On the other hand, the inward or effectual calling is a work of God that accompanies the outward calling to cause the elect to come to faith in Christ. The preaching of the gospel appears as an outward calling to all men, but it also becomes an inward summons to the elect. The outward calling is produced by men, but the inward calling is a work of God that occurs only to the elect. And this inward calling is usually concurrent with the outward calling. In other words, many people may hear the gospel in a given setting, but God will cause only the elect to believe what is preached, while he hardens the non-elect against it.
Matthew 22:14 says, "For many are invited, but few are chosen." The word "invited" in this verse may be translated "called," as many other translations have it. Many are indeed "invited" in that they hear the outward call of the gospel, but only a few are among God's chosen ones, and therefore genuine and permanent professions of faith only come from these people." (emphasis mine)
- Vincent Cheung, Systematic Theology
37818
Well-Known Member
That is an interpretation. The written word of God nowhere states it that way. Nowhere.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Yes, it does. You just refuse to believe it. Only God can give you eyes to see and ears to hear.
Amen!
12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Jehovah hath made even both of them. Prov 20
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. Mt 13
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11
??? Never heard of the gospel trumpet?
31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mt 24
37818
Well-Known Member
Claiming the interpertation is not quoting anything. Please quote the scripture. You cannot quote what does not exist. Saying, "Yes it does." Is not quoting anything
37818
Well-Known Member
That is yet to happen. 1 Corinthians 15:52,
Yes it has - Matthew 24:34, it began before that generation passed away and is still ongoing as long as His messengers are preaching the gospel.
Not the same 'trump'.
37818
Well-Known Member
We disagree.
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