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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
    Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    Gen 1:27,31
    And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Gen 2:2,3

    The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. Gen 2:8

    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.. Rev 12:9
    Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” Gen 3:1

    Is that the very same serpent being spoken of in those two verses?

    Why, did God put the man he created in his image in the garden with Satan the devil, that serpent of old?

    Is the following verse relative to God placing the man in the presence of the serpent?

    For the creation was subjected to futility [vanity], not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 8:20

    What was God doing?

    Does, "hope," of Romans 8:20 have anything to do with the following?
    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
    Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
    2 Tim 1:10 Darby but has been made manifest now by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has annulled death, and brought to light life and incorruptibility by the glad tidings;
    Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    Was the above necessary for the following?

    He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
    Forasmuch then as the children [Of Adam] are partakers of flesh and blood, he [?The Word made flesh?] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14

    The big question.

    Did Adam, "fall,' from something or did Adam do exactly what God knew he would do, for the purpose of God?

    Did, "the purpose," require selling and redeeming and or to ransom?


    Thoughts of all please.
     
    #1 percho, Jul 1, 2022
  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    God decreed the fall
     
    #2 Marooncat79, Jul 1, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    WHY?
     
    #3 Silverhair, Jul 1, 2022
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    because He is God, He did it for His glory and to demonstrate His sovereignty over creation by choosing to glorify His Son Jesus Christ as Savior of the world
     
    #4 Marooncat79, Jul 1, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 3
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God in His absolute omniscience knew. We have a back story. What exactly it is we are not told. But we are given hints, but are not told. It is the reason for the lake of eternal fire, Matthew 25:41. There is more man made speculation than truth. The only thing for sure, there is a back story not told, but only hinted.
     
    #5 37818, Jul 1, 2022
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  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    EXACTLY
     
    #6 Alan Gross, Jul 1, 2022
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God does not need to demonstrate His sovereignty. He is sovereign.
     
    #7 37818, Jul 1, 2022
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    the demonstration was for us

    but yes, you are correct
     
    #8 Marooncat79, Jul 1, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #9 37818, Jul 1, 2022
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God does demonstrate. Just ask Pharaoh. God showed His power to him so that His name would be declared throughout the earth.

    Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

    God showed His wrath. God made His power known. God made known the riches of His glory.

    Romans 9:22-24 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
     
    #10 KenH, Jul 1, 2022
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mankind needs to know God's sovereignty.
    Romans 3:11.
     
    #11 37818, Jul 1, 2022
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So, according to you, the only way for God to have glory is to make man sinful and the only way to show that He is sovereign was to crucify the Son.
     
    #12 Silverhair, Jul 1, 2022
  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Nope

    you really need to read some Baptist Confessions. Seriously

    thanks
     
    #13 Marooncat79, Jul 2, 2022
  14. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Again, He did that for our benefit and His glory
     
    #14 Marooncat79, Jul 2, 2022
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The question is why would that be necessary under your theology? God, according to the view you seem to hold, has already picked out those to be saved and condemned all the rest. So whose benefit was it for? Why was it necessary for Christ to die? The absolutely elect must have been saved without him; and the non-elect cannot be saved by him.

    Since I follow what the bible says I can agree with what you said "He did that for our benefit and His glory".
     
    #15 Silverhair, Jul 2, 2022
  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    God, according to the view you seem to hold, has already picked out those to be saved and condemned all the rest. So whose benefit was it for?

    God did it to glorify Himself

    Why was it necessary for Christ to die?

    To save us from our sins. I Corinthians 15:1-8

    The absolutely elect must have been saved without him; and the non-elect cannot be saved by him. - Not sure what you mean so will not attempt to answer

    again, I encourage you to read a good Baptist confession
     
    #16 Marooncat79, Jul 2, 2022
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The sins of the elect were imputed to Christ and He was their propitiation for their sins. Christ's perfect righteousness in keeping the law on behalf of the elect was imputed to them.

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,

    Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
    And whose sins are covered.
    Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
     
    #17 KenH, Jul 2, 2022
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I know why Christ had to die according to the bible, my question is why was it necessary that He do so under your theological view?
     
    #18 Silverhair, Jul 2, 2022
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I gave you the answer.
     
    #19 KenH, Jul 2, 2022
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Under your theological view, why was it necessary for Christ to die for His sheep?
     
    #20 KenH, Jul 2, 2022
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