Featured Thoughts on, "Freewillers considered Brethren"?

Alan, there is a statement made in scripture that is true of everyone ever born into the family of Adam. Here it is.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world <2889>, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If this statement did not teach you anything else, it should teach you that death passed upon every member of Adam's race who sins. Be careful how you read that, because it does not say that sin passed upon all men, but death by sin. Sin is a deliberate act done in the body against one's authority, or against his conscience, by knowledge and forethought and understanding that what he is doing is wrong.

The meaning of death is never a state of unconsciousness or inability to reason. The definition of death has no relationship to that presented to us by the Reformed. Their definition is, as with everything else in their system, 180 degrees opposite the truth. The reason we are given in the chapter 5 that all have sinned is because sin, that entered into the world through Adam, separated God and Adam. The reason Adam understood that and why he hid from God is because he was now naked. Whatever it was that clothed Adam was now gone and he could no longer be in the presence of God. I suggest to you that it was light and a bright shining, because God is light.

I suggest you meditate on these verses and consider them in light of Romans 5;
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

The glorified body of Jesus Christ is a body clothed in light that puts the sun to same. Our hope as Christians is to receive a body like unto his glorious body. The predestination of the bodies in the church of Jesus Christ is said to be a change unto this kind of glorious body when he comes for the church. This is the blessed hope of the church. It may not be your hope, and I doubt it is, but it is the hope of those who walk in the light we are given, while we look through a glass darkly.

Back to Adam;

Those born in Adam are born like he appeared after he sinned. They are born naked. You and I were born naked. We had no light and sin thrives where there is no light. Sin ruled over every son of Adam because for Adam's race sin is a sovereign. It rules unto death. Adam's race must obey it because there is no power against it. All of Adam's race will become guilty of the same thing Adam was guilty of, sin. Not the same sin as Adam, because Adam was the only one in the garden with God and was told to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But sin as it is defined in the scriptures nevertheless.

Sin is defined 3 ways.
1) The transgression of the law
2) Not doing what one knows that is right to do is sin
3) Whatsoever is not of faith is sin

We are told when Adam's children are guilty of a sin. Here.

12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

You can see that sin is a manifestation of the desires turned into an act of the body of one who yields to the temptation to do what he knows is wrong.

The only power against sin is Christ himself in the person of the Spirit of God, the gift who is mentioned in this chapter and who who indwells those who receive the atonement of Jesus Christ. So says Romans 5. If a person has Christ dwelling in them and that person is "in Christ," then God cannot see any sin because Jesus Christ is the atonement for sin.

Here is the gift in romans 5
Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Ro 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Ro 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Get the definition of life and death right and these verses gives us hope. Define death like the Reformed and no one has hope for the obvious reason they are all defined as being totally depraved and without ability to respond to God.

The bottom line is the dead in Adam may live if they receive the atonement of Jesus Christ that satisfies God on behalf of sinful men and reconciles God to sinful men and will give the gift of life to those who obey him and will be reconciled to him through Jesus Christ, who rose again from the dead and is alive. Through Christ we are born into a different family, the family of God and when we receive the new body we will not have the touch of Adam upon us any longer.

 

Are children corrupted sinners at conception or are they pure, but become corrupt later as they grow in this world?

 

The scriptures plainly states that Adam was guilty of the sin in the garden. We are told he was not deceived. This means that he understood the act was wrong and he, with knowledge and forethought, ate of the tree. This, according to God in Romans 5, introduced sin into the world and death by sin. Sin is an action done in the body. Romans 5 says where there is no law there is no transgression. I have already quoted James 1 that tells us that there is ....


1) temptation to do wrong - from without
2) a desire to do wrong (lust)- from within
3) The act of doing known wrong - sin
4) death

So, answering your question. No. Children are not corrupted sinners at conception, and they are not pure. They are innocent. No one can sin without cognitive ability. This is the reason animals, like Abel's lamb, could be accepted as a sacrifice type of Jesus Christ. It had life and even a soul but because it could not reason it would always be innocent no matter what it did in it's life. All sacrificial animals throughout history were innocent and there has never been a trial to prove it. An animal cannot sin but there comes a time in a child's life that they can, and when they can, they will, because sin is sovereign in the world and the child has no power against it. When they sin they will become guilty of sin.

Ro 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

It takes a will to sin and it takes a will to receive the grace of God.

 

Do you realize you are presenting a Pelagian teaching that Augustine showed as a false teaching?

 

I figure Augustine is in hell right now. Have you ever read his story? He was a father of the Roman church. Where is any truth in that? Jesus said one can know a tree by the fruit it bears.

 

Wait, what!? You think Augustine is in hell? Do you think Pelagius is in heaven?
Oof, you are far, far, away from any traditional Baptist theology.

 

Am I wrong? Is Augustine considered the father of the Roman Catholic Church? And, did I even mention this other fellow, Pelagius? And, why do I care what he said when I have the scriptures, which claims to be the written words of God, and the Holy Ghost indwelling, who claims to be my divine teacher of those words. Who is Augustine and who is Pelagius, who has more authority than Peter and Paul in your estimation?

 

Augustine is an early Roman Catholic leader that the Roman Catholic Church no longer holds to his theology. The RCC holds a semi-pelagian theology that is much more similar to your theology than it is to Augustine. Reformers such as Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin were all from the Augustinian order. They all would have denounced your theology as biblical nonsense.

You should care about Pelagius because you are walking in his heretical boots with your own comments on sin. Do you really think you are expressing an original idea?

 

There are more followers of pelaguis today it seems then ever before, as the definition of grace and gospel been redefined!

 

How is Romans 9:11, as commonly translated, ". . . they had not yet been born, not having done anything good or bad, . . ." not Pelagiusism?

 

All are born in Adam as sinners, by both birth and choice, correct?

 

Paul is not claiming the children were uncorrupt in the womb. He is saying that neither had done any works that would impress or disgust God. Therefore, (remember Paul is making a massive argument from Romans 1 to Romans 11) justification is not by works, but only by faith alone. Since faith is a gift given by God, such faith is given by God's elective will, not human choice.

Romans 9:10-12

And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”