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Pelagianism

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JonC

JonC

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On another thread I stated that aborted children are sinners by nature and face the wages of sin. But at the same time I do not believe aborted children have committed sins (sinful acts).

@AustinC believes this is the heresy called Pelagianism.

Having studied theology I know it is not, but wanted to give him a forum to learn. But I have studied this in depth as a graduate student and have no interest in studying it again with @AustinC .

I will say that the belief all men ate sinners by nature negates Pelagianism. The belief that we cannot, apart from God, do any true hood negates Pelaganism. The belief that no man can come to God apart from God drawing them negates Pelagianism.

I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type 9f insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults.


Here is one link for the interested:


Pelagianism | Description, History, & Beliefs
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

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JonC said:
On another thread I stated that aborted children are sinners by nature and face the wages of sin. But at the same time I do not believe aborted children have committed sins (sinful acts).

@AustinC believes this is the heresy called Pelagianism.

Having studied theology I know it is not, but wanted to give him a forum to learn. But I have studied this in depth as a graduate student and have no interest in studying it again with @AustinC .

I will say that the belief all men ate sinners by nature negates Pelagianism. The belief that we cannot, apart from God, do any true hood negates Pelaganism. The belief that no man can come to God apart from God drawing them negates Pelagianism.

I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type 9f insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults.


Here is one link for the interested:


Pelagianism | Description, History, & Beliefs
Click to expand...
On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism.
 
A

AustinC

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It was the position of Pelagius that Adam’s sin affected Adam and only Adam. That is to say, as a result of Adam’s transgression there was no change wrought in the constituent nature of the human race. Man was born in a state of righteousness, and as one created in the image of God, he was created immutably so. Even though it was possible for him to sin, it was not possible for him to lose his basic human nature, which was capable always and everywhere to be obedient. Pelagius went on to say that it is, even after the sin of Adam, possible for every human being to live a life of perfect righteousness and that, indeed, some have achieved such status.
The Pelagian Controversy by R.C. Sproul

Along with Pelagius, Evangelicals[2] today believe that salvation is by character.[3] They believe that men, by faith, before God actually affects a change in their nature, must exercise their will towards that which is good and believe the promises of God without coercion because they are able to do so.
The Pelagian Captivity of the Church – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

Original Sin & the Death of Infants | Tim Challies
 
JonC

JonC

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AustinC said:
It was the position of Pelagius that Adam’s sin affected Adam and only Adam.
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It's more than that.

Scripture presents Adam as the head of man. It is not that Adam made everybody sin, but that through Adam sin entered the world, and through sin, death. And death spread to all men for all have sinned. Granted, "men" here is people groups...i.e., Jew and Gentile. But the fact is all are men.

In other words, were you in the Garden instead of Adam you would have done the same.

But Pelagius was, of course wrong. That is not the point here.

The point is that you, and a few others, use the word "Pelagianism" not to reflect the beliefs of the heresy but as an insult to hurl at anybody who dares question Calvinism.

You would do better to defend your position rather than misrepresent the views of others.
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

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JonC said:
It's more than that.

Scripture presents Adam as the head of man. It is not that Adam made everybody sin, but that through Adam sin entered the world, and through sin, death. And death spread to all men for all have sinned. Granted, "men" here is people groups...i.e., Jew and Gentile. But the fact is all are men.

In other words, were you in the Garden instead of Adam you would have done the same.

But Pelagius was, of course wrong. That is not the point here.

The point is that you, and a few others, use the word "Pelagianism" not to reflect the beliefs of the heresy but as an insult to hurl at anybody who dares question Calvinism.

You would do better to defend your position rather than misrepresent the views of others.
Click to expand...
Since it has come up....
Is not calling someone a heretic a violation of board rules? By defacto, accusing one of doctrinal heresy labels them as a heretic.
Why is accusing a person of believeing Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism not a violation of board rules?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Reynolds said:
Since it has come up....
Is not calling someone a heretic a violation of board rules? By defacto, accusing one of doctrinal heresy labels them as a heretic.
Why is accusing a person of believeing Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism not a violation of board rules?
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Saying somebody believes Pelagianism should be. But also because lying is against the rules.

Some want to paint those who disagree with them in the worst light, even if it is untrue, just to have points of greater disagreement. That is how some use "Pelaganism", "leftist", "liberal", etc. It is just to create emotion because they cannot defend their own views adequately.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
It's more than that.

Scripture presents Adam as the head of man. It is not that Adam made everybody sin, but that through Adam sin entered the world, and through sin, death. And death spread to all men for all have sinned. Granted, "men" here is people groups...i.e., Jew and Gentile. But the fact is all are men.

In other words, were you in the Garden instead of Adam you would have done the same.

But Pelagius was, of course wrong. That is not the point here.

The point is that you, and a few others, use the word "Pelagianism" not to reflect the beliefs of the heresy but as an insult to hurl at anybody who dares question Calvinism.

You would do better to defend your position rather than misrepresent the views of others.
Click to expand...
I use it to reflect the idea that a human being is born without sin.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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JonC said:
I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type 9f insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults.
Click to expand...

Reynolds said:
On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism.
Click to expand...

@AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times, when he is unable to produce even one verse of scripture to support the unscriptural position that he blindly parrots.
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

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kyredneck said:
@AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times, when he is unable to produce even one verse of scripture to support the unscriptural position that he blindly parrots.
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Why did I get quoted? I have never accused you of RCC teaching.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Reynolds said:
I just asked why I got quoted in the accusation?
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YOU said:
"On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism."

I said:
"@AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times..."

...THE POINT BEING, 'Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism' is not the only accusation a 'Calvinist' like AustinC will accuse an opponent of.
 
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Reynolds

Reynolds

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kyredneck said:
YOU said:
"On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism."

I said:
"@AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times..."

...THE POINT BEING, 'Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism' is not the only accusation a 'Calvinist' like AustinC will accuse an opponent of.
Click to expand...
Makes sense now but that is so off topic to the O.P. that I would never have made the association.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Reynolds said:
Makes sense now but that is so off topic to the O.P. that I would never have made the association.
Click to expand...

Off topic??? From the OP:

"I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type of insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults."

Replace "Pelagianism" with RCC teaching, or any other groundless accusation you can think of. There's several here on the BB who are unable to defend their views and will not hesitate to resort to empty accusations like @AustinC does.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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AustinC said:
Do you or do you not teach justification by faith plus works?
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I quote scripture:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
 
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