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Featured What are the Fundamentals of the Faith ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by DaveXR650, Dec 6, 2022.

  1. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    On another thread the question came up as to whether Independent Fundamental Baptists could fellowship with Reformed Baptists. Is this not possible or is there enough agreement on fundamental (small f) beliefs that we can at least acknowledge each others salvation and possibly even worship together. I think we can but I also think this is a minority opinion. So, does anyone have a minimal list of essential points that they would share, that would tend to shed light on this.
     
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  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Faith in Christ Jesus as your personal Lord and savior.

    Is Jesus Lord without being our savior? Yes
    Is Jesus our Savior without being our Lord? No
    Does Jesus expect those who know him to live a certain way? Yes.
    Do those "certain ways" in any way determine if one is saved or not? No.
    Can someone know Jesus as Lord and Savior, and thus be saved, but not fully understand what all of that means? Yes.

    I do not consider myself as either C or A. I'm a Baptist
     
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  3. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Puritans under Oliver Cromwell 1654
    1. The Holy Scripture is the rule of knowing God and living unto Him which whoso does not believe cannot be saved.
    2. That there is a God who is the Creator, Governor, and Judge of the world, which is to be received by faith, and every other
    way of the knowledge of Him is insufficient.
    3. That this God who is the Creator is eternally distinct from all creatures in His Being and Blessedness.
    4. That this God is One in Three Persons or subsistences.
    5. Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and Man without the knowledge of whom there is no salvation.
    6. That this Jesus Christ is the true God.
    7. That this Jesus Christ is also true Man.
    8. That this Jesus Christ is God and Man in One Person
    9. That this Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, who by paying a ransom and bearing our sins, has made satisfaction for them.
    10.That this same Lord Jesus Christ is He that was crucified at Jerusalem, and rose again and ascended into Heaven.
    11.That this same Jesus Christ being the only God and Man in One Person remains forever a distinct person from all saints and
    angels notwithstanding their union and communion with Him.
    12.That all Men by nature were dead in sins and trespasses, and no man can be saved unless he is born again, repent and
    believe.
    13.That we are justified and saved by grace and faith in Jesus Christ and not by works.
    14.That to continue in any know sin upon what pretense or principle soever is damnable.
    15.That God is to be worshipped according to His own will and whosoever shall forsake and despise all the duties of His
    worship cannot be saved.
    16.That the dead shall rise, that there is a day of judgement where all shall appear, some to go into everlasting life and some
    into everlasting condemnation.
     
  4. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the long post above but I posted it because this was what the Puritan's came up with. Apparently lead by John Owen. Richard Baxter was also there. I say this because I don't see a lot of what we constantly argue about with the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. I don't mean that these issues aren't valid issues to argue about in a debate forum, but my point is these Calvinist Puritans did not see fit to elevate some of these issues to "essential" status.
     
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  5. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    If you are a Fundamentalist Baptist or a Reformed Baptist, what specific things do you perceive that would make it impossible to worship together, or to fellowship? Or what things make you doubt the salvation of the other group?
     
  6. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I think both groups would go with that. ????
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Would or would this not entail that the Son of God being the sole agent in the Trinity as Creator. Per John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17 and Ephesians 3:9, ". . . God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ."
     
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    In the 1920s?, the Church came up w 5 fundamentals of the faith
     
  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Help me out here. Do you know what they were off hand? I was referring to a series of papers published in the 20's called the fundamentals but I didn't know what the points were. I did read where some Presbyterians came up with a list but they left a lot out because they, amongst themselves, already agreed on the Westminster Confession of Faith.

    I'm just trying to figure out here if there are primary doctrines that would cause either a fundamental Baptist or a Reformed Baptist to doubt the salvation of the other party. I understand the theological disagreements and have no problem debating them on a theological debate forum. But do you doubt the salvation of someone holding a IFB position on these issues? If so, specifically why?
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    There are three "Points of Fellowship", by which a Historical Baptist may be defined, i.e., that is one that believes Like-Fellow believing church members have existed since the time of Christ, when He Founded His KIND of church; regardless of what they were 'called' throughout history.

    The 3 points are:

    1.) Believer's Baptism

    2.) The Priesthood of the believer,

    3.) Eternal Security.

    The "Reformed" position that does not believe Like-Fellow believing church members have existed since the time of Christ when He Founded His KIND of church; regardless of what they were 'called' throughout history, see themselves as having to "Reform" the church from which they originated, Roman Catholicism.

    Along with Roman Catholicism and the subsequent Presbyterian teaching, the "Reformed" will often bring Infant Baptism.

    That would be a denial of point 1.) Believer's Baptism.

    That is a point of fellowship.
     
    #10 Alan Gross, Dec 10, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The Second Coming

    Saved by grace alone received thru faith alone

    Bible inspired and without any errors in Originals

    God is revealed as being trinity, Father Jesus Holy Spirit

    Physical resurrection of Jesus

    Salvation only in Lord Jesus

    Cross was where God provided for Atonement
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Tell me, do you not fellowship with Reformed people who are paedobaptists, or do you not fellowship with any Reformed people in case they become paedobaptists, Roman Catholics or Presbyterians or do you not fellowship with people who have doubts about the 'Trail of Blood' theory?
     
  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Verbal inspirations

    deity of Christ

    visible return

    the 3 I def remember

    probably

    Grace alone and faith alone

    but not sure

    too tired to look it up
     
  14. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
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    Virgin birth

    resurrection

    are the 5
     
  15. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    No there is not

    we disagree on the Ordo Salutis and ie man’s capability
     
  16. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    @Marooncat79 That's a good list I think. @JesusFan , good list too.

    I feel like that more and more.
     
  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Back in 1971 - the US Army sent me to Germany (in support of NATO). I ended up in a small city called Zweibruecken.
    (whch means two bridges) While there I started attending Zweibruecken Baptist Church. The church was affilated with the
    Southern Baptist Convention. Shortly before I left for the States - we are running well over 125 folks in church. Of that number
    about half were NOT Southern Baptist! Yet, we had great fellowship and saw much done for the Lord. Granted, we did not agree on
    every little doctrine - so many just put those aside as we sought to proclaim the blessed name if Christ to our community.

    Any other Vets here that joined a Baptist church overseas?
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    One hundred years ago in 1922 in Britain, various independent churches came together to form a voluntary fellowship, the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches (FIEC). Most of these were Baptist churches that had left the Baptist Union because of the Downgrade in doctrine, but there were other independent churches as well. Today, SFAIK every church is baptistic, if not actually Baptist. There are today about 650 churches in the Fellowship.
    Here is the Basis of Faith:
    Beliefs - FIEC
    If you scroll down to the bottom, you will see three "Ethos Statements" to which all member churches agree. These are 'Gospel Unity,' 'Women in Ministry' and 'Same Sex Marriage.' It was agreed at the Leaders' Meeting last month that for legal reasons the statement on same-sex 'marriage' would be incorporated into the main Basis of Faith. This will be done in the next month or so.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    In general in my experience IFB's do not like to cooperate or acknowledge anyone who is not an IFB or even in their own church.
     
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