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Featured What are the Fundamentals of the Faith ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by DaveXR650, Dec 6, 2022.

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  1. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I've had time to read that attachment. It's an encouragement. From where I am I can't tell what's going on in England. This is a blessing.
     
    #21 DaveXR650, Dec 12, 2022
  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    prob also disagree on worship. And how it is to occur ie the Regulative Principle
     
    #22 Marooncat79, Dec 13, 2022
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Fundamental to the Faith is Jesus Christ, there is no other foundation to be laid and to build from 1 Cor 3:11

    11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Now these things are fundamental in Preaching Christ:

    1. Who Jesus Christ is ?
    2. What has He accomplished?
    3. For whom was it accomplished for ?
     
    #23 Brightfame52, Dec 13, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I guess that would be a big one as to whether IFB and Reformed Baptists could feel completely at ease with each other.
     
    #24 DaveXR650, Dec 13, 2022
  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Dave

    we would define grace totally differently
     
    #25 Marooncat79, Dec 13, 2022
  6. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean that the IFB would say that grace is that Christ has died for your sins and you have to decide to believe this versus a Reformed Baptist who would say that Christ has died for your sins and you have been given faith? In other words, back to Ephesians 2:8-9 and whether the "it is a gift of God" refers directly to faith or is it referring back to grace in the verse?
     
    #26 DaveXR650, Dec 13, 2022
  7. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Yep
     
    #27 Marooncat79, Dec 13, 2022
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    More like Christ died for sinners. Not Christ died for you
     
    #28 Marooncat79, Dec 13, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    So I guess the short answer to the OP would be no, it is not possible.
     
    #29 DaveXR650, Dec 13, 2022
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    In any case its a fundamental doctrine of the Faith. My answer is Christs Sheep Jn 10 both jew and gentile Sheep
     
    #30 Brightfame52, Dec 14, 2022
  11. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I guess my question would be in what way is this a fundamental doctrine of the faith. Not challenging the correctness of your response but asking how primary of a doctrine this is. In my post #3 I listed the things the Puritans came up with in the 1650's. Number 12 below:
    With that, I fully understand that a Calvinist would have a different view of the order of salvation than say an IFB but would not everyone agree in the truth of point number 12. And why did the Puritans, who came up with that, not go into the order of salvation more than they did? I think they were all Calvinists, although Richard Baxter was there and his theology was different, but apparently Owen presided. Same thing with the extent of the Atonement. It seems they didn't go there. Was it politics maybe or was it not primary?

    I have noticed that some groups and theologians really do think that someone with an Arminian soteriology is damned; and some IFB's believe Calvinism so misrepresents God that their salvation is also questioned. Is that the consensus of people in general? And I don't mean it's not worth debating, and even useful to debate on a debate forum but do we really believe the other side is lost?
     
    #31 DaveXR650, Dec 14, 2022
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Conversion sometimes happens in spite of what is being said from the pulpit

    to say we have to understand the Ordo in order to be saved is borderline maybe more Gnosticism

    the very basics are I Cor 15:1-8
     
    #32 Marooncat79, Dec 14, 2022
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Luke 22:20-21, ". . . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ."
     
    #33 37818, Dec 14, 2022
  14. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Yes. The Disciples were believers
     
    #34 Marooncat79, Dec 14, 2022
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Are you asking me ?
     
    #35 Brightfame52, Dec 14, 2022
  16. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I was just throwing it out there in general. I didn't mean to try to put anyone on the spot with this thread. I appreciate your input.
     
    #36 DaveXR650, Dec 14, 2022
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    When Tom Cassidy was on this board, he and I had one or two disagreements, but generally we were of one mind on most theological topics.
    If he was a typical IFB then I would say that IFBs and Reformed Baptists should get on pretty well.

    I miss him.
     
    #37 Martin Marprelate, Dec 20, 2022
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    In Britain, Bible-believing churches are on the up, especially independent ones. My take would be that it is the more Calvinistic churches that are growing, but that might be because they tend to be the circles I move in so I know more about them.
     
    #38 Martin Marprelate, Dec 20, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Now 1 Cor 15:3 reads

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    Now why is it important to expound exactly who Christ is ? See many may believe this historical narrative, however all dont share the same understanding of who this person Christ is. Some will say he was a mere noteworthy martyr, a great prophet, or the Son of God, yet will deny that He is and was God. Now can we believe a gospel that denies that the one who died for sins was not God ? Is that Preaching the Gospel according to 1 Cor 15:3 ?
     
    #39 Brightfame52, Dec 22, 2022
  20. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    This is very true. In post #3 the list the Puritans came up with almost all the points are defining they meant when talking about Jesus.
     
    #40 DaveXR650, Dec 22, 2022
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