Featured Election means that the Destiny of men is in The Hands of God.

I like the article so far, I read the section:
* "The Doctrine Defined, Explained and Proved"

Will read it more later. However that mans destiny is in the hand of God, that part of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God !

 

An often repeted false teaching never makes said false teachings true.

What is true: God has a choosing which precedes the election of His elect. Per Ephesians 1:4, Mark 13:20.

No where in the word of God is it taught God's election precedes His calling.

 

Acts 18:9-10 shows us God's election before any call.

And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.”

This is before the call. God has already elected those who live in Corinth. It was of great comfort to Paul.

 

Destiny of men is in The Hands of God.

It is to be sure. When God decreed that He had the authority and the power to save men from their sins and that He would send His Son to die for those sins and that men should hear the gospel to understand His plan of salvation that the gospel alone has the power to lead men to salvation and faith it shows the Destiny as designed by God is in His hands.

 

The only thing that keeps men from being saved is when their love of sin and sinning keeps them from coming to Christ. Whosoever means whosoever and anyone who hears the gospel can come to Christ. The gospel itself is contained in the word of God and what applies it to the individual is the Holy Spirit. Anyone who wants to come can come.

No one wants to come without the work of the Holy Spirit. Those that come really do choose to come. Those same people were affected by the Holy Spirit and would not have chosen to come except for that. There is nothing that says you have to know that but there are ample scriptures that say that. Someone who doesn't understand that or does not agree with that is wrong in the area of election and God's sovereignty. God is in charge of your destiny. But if they come to Christ they will be saved. Someone who so emphasizes God's sovereignty that they withdraw or ridicule those with a different understanding of these things, or make it a primary doctrine are guilty of mishandling God's word and are sinning. But if they have come to Christ for salvation they are also saved and God uses them for his work.

Any of us that pray for the salvation of others believe these things. Those who insist that the "decision" is totally up to the individual are praying that the will of the individual will be influenced by the Spirit so they can be saved, so they don't really believe it totally up to the individual. Those who are totally into God's sovereignty are praying that somehow God will take into account their prayers and save people. They pray His sovereignty includes that and are willing to petition God no matter how that fits into a pre planned system. They desire God to save the people they are praying for and are willing to ask this of God, which at least proves that they believe their prayers are part of God's sovereign plan. Taken to the logical end, at some point they cannot deny that they are indeed seeking to influence God's sovereignty, even if them doing that is part of God's sovereignty!

 

I have been reading A.W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God for the first time in about 10 years and I had forgotten what an utterly convincing book it is, and also how easy it is to read. Here is his chapter on God's sovereignty in salvation. I really would encourage everybody to read it.
CHAPTER - THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD IN SALVATION
This is actually Pink's first and only book published as such, in 1918. All his other writings began their lives as articles in his magazine, Studies in the Scriptures, and were published in book form after his death..

 

Thanks for your opinion Dave.

 

From the OP by C.D. Cole "If my destiny is not safe in my own hands after I am saved then how could it be thought to be safe in my own hands before my conversion". pg 8

Most of us on here are Baptists who believe in some type of once saved always saved principle. If you combine that with a strong view of self determination as far as getting saved you have a real logical problem I think. He goes into that on page 8.

"Election is not the cause of anybody going to Hell for election is unto salvation. Neither is non-election responsible for the damnation of sinners. SIN is the thing that sends men to hell, and all men are sinners by nature and practice - sinners altogether apart from election and non-election. It does not follow that because election is unto salvation that non-election is unto damnation. Sin is the damning element in human life. Election harms nobody." pg. 7

This is important to understand for people who bristle at God being sovereign. According to this, if you are not elected unto salvation then it looks like God is going to respect your free will and allow you to remain sovereign. I don't see how that's a good thing.

 

I agree

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Great please show scripture to support this.

who are these people?

 

Who are these people?

 

John 3:19 and John 3:20 help show this. The classic verses I guess would be Ephesians 2:3-5. John 6:44, Hosea 11:2-4. In general as you read the new testament you see a tendency for salvation to be expressed as a work of the Spirit as opposed to a set method or a set of propositions set before men who are then to evaluate and join in or not. Romans 11:7, Acts 13:48.

What makes this hard to understand is that it is also true that the people involved in all this really are acting according to their free will. If you come to faith in Christ you really did decide to do this. This discussion is about HOW that came about. Did it originate in something already good or virtuous in the person or did it come from the Holy Spirit's action on them. And in the same way, those who reject Christ really are rejecting Him and they are bringing most of the hardening that occurs on themselves. God has not done them any injury.

 

These are people that don't believe in free will... Man had free will ONCE and look what it cost him... How does Ephesians put it?... Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins... The next time a dead man embraces the gospel, you let me know... God acts before man, you are alive spiritually by God alone by the action of the Holy Sprit... Not by the written gospel on paper pen and ink but by the Living Gospel The WORD of GOD JESUS CHRIST in flesh and blood... The next time your Bible starts bleeding blood you let me know... Your free will is bound by your federal head Adam just like Luther said in his Bondage Of The Will... Course if you want to argue with it argue with scripture... Romans 9: 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

If some don't believe in that Election is ALL of God, I really don't care... I DO!... We have been hashing out this doctrine since I first joined and that was over twenty years ago and have not come to a consensus yet and as the French say... c'est la vie... Brother Glen

 

From post 11, those are people who understand talk of God's sovereignty in a sense that they think people are in some kind of a neutral state and therefore need some kind of a "chance" to be saved. A chance to accept or reject the propositions of the plan of salvation. They haven't really understood the true willfulness of our natural state and accepted the real guilt we all have. Therefore the idea of God electing some for salvation means logically that some are also being injured by God in not electing them rather than just leaving them to their own hearts desires.

And I must admit there is a branch of Calvinism that is so deterministic that they explicitly teach the idea that God reprobates people in an active and deterministic way. That people were created with it being God's will that they go to Hell as a primary decree, not in the way the author in the OP or Bunyan in "Reprobation Asserted" teaches it.

 

There is nothing in those verses about the action of the Holy Spirit in salvation. Now, I went and looked them over well to be sure I have not, in the past, missed something. The HS is not even in view. At best the activity of the HS is assumed in those verses but it is not even implied. Can you provide anything concrete?

The problem here is is you left out the word of God in this. Very puzzling but it seems to be a regular habit of those who hold to the reformed definition of election. That is a real problem. See the word of God specifically says that the gospel is what brings people to faith. No where does it say that the HS is directly involved in that. Hebrews 4 says that there is power in the word of God and that power appears to be dismissed by those in the reformed camp. It certainly is dismissed by you here by your lack of inclusion of it in this process. My suspicion is that if one holds that faith is a gift then the word of God is not necessary even though scripture is clear that it is the very things that brings about faith (Romans 10:17).

 

Well my concern is that it appears to be more of a characterization that misrepresents them. Not sure who would claim such a view but I have never met them.

 

Dead men can neither respond to the gospel positively more reject it. If you are going to take that analogy that far on one side then it is inconsistent to not take it that far on the other side.

However, what makes more sense is that one is dead like the prodigal rather than lazerus.

 

Ephesians 2:1-3. The idea of a quickening, and our being spiritually dead is valid to use and in context.
1 Thessalonians 1:5-6 The gospel came not in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost.... That's about as direct as you can get. The word is powerful but the Holy Spirit is still necessary.
Colossians 2:12-13 you were dead and he quickened you

Outside of verses, just the general tone of the Bible accounts of salvations in the New Testament seem to point away from a proposition being presented to men and more of a thing that happens. Have you ever seen people who sat under the word for years suddenly get saved? What happened? The word was there all along. Or why do some people study scripture and become expert atheist debaters or apostate clergymen and others are saved? They all had the same access to the word.

The other thing to remember is that the idea that the Holy Spirit is essential for salvation is not unique to Calvinists. G. Campbell Morgan and John R. Rice both felt the Holy Spirit was needed for salvation even though they did not go along with all the determinism of Calvinism.

 

Please break down this verse for me to support your claim. I am not seeing it.

That verse speak to how the gospel was given to man (i.e. the Bible) not to the working of the HS in salvation.

Ok great but does it reveal to us how we came to believe?

 

It often is. The accusation is that if you believe it is in your power to believe or not to believe then you have made faith into a work and are not saved. I personally do not believe that. If you throw yourself on God's mercy and come to Christ you are not making faith into a work even if it seems to you that you just decided to do so on your own. I do believe that the correct explanation of what happened is that the Holy Spirit wrought faith in you.

If you don't believe God is sovereign in salvation there is a chance of a doctrinal drift where the Gospel becomes a sales presentation or the success of it becomes a matter of the personal abilities of the presenter or the techniques used. This does lead to a lot of problems and I have witnessed it personally. There will also be a tendency to enhance soul winning success by promising other things than what is spelled out in the gospel.