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Featured No Shipwrecks

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Feb 3, 2023.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    There are no marks of shipwrecks, no remnants of lost vessels, floating upon that sea, which flows between God's Jerusalem below and the Jerusalem which is above. The excellent Dr. William Gouge has an observation full to the present point:

    If a man were cast into a river, we should look upon him as safe, while he is able to keep his head above water. The Church, Christ's mystic body, is cast into the sea of the world [and, afterwards, into the sea of death]; and Christ, their Head, keeps Himself aloft, even in heaven. Is there, then, any fear, or possibility, of drowning a member of this body? If any should be drowned, then either Christ Himself must be drowned first, or else that member must be pulled from Christ: both which are impossible. By virtue, therefore, of this union, we see that on Christ's safety, our's depends. If he is safe, so are we. If we perish, so must He.

    Well, therefore, may dying believers sing, "Not unto us, O Lord, but to Thy Name, give glory! Thy loving mercy carries us, when we cannot go: and, for Thy truth's sake, Thou wilt save us to the utmost without the loss of one."

    - excerpt from Augustus Toplady's "Arminianism: The Golden Idol of Freewill"
     
    #1 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again we have "shipwreck" denied because once saved, we are always saved. This misses entirely Paul's message about making a shipwreck of our faith. See 1 Timothy 1:18-20.
     
    #2 Van, Feb 3, 2023
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Once a person is saved, how can they become unsaved? It is nonsensical and impossible. God says He will preserve those who are saved. I believe God, rather than man - Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
     
    #3 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, did I say people become unsaved? No!!!!
    So this post is yet another disinformation post, and is nonsense.

    "Once again we have "shipwreck" denied because once saved, we are always saved"

    1 Timothy 1:18-20
    This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.​

    Thus the concept of "shipwreck" presented by Paul is not loss of salvation, but presenting disinformation concerning the gospel such as blasphemy.
     
    #4 Van, Feb 3, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If I misunderstood your post, I apologize. So are you saying that once God regenerates a sinner that he cannot ever be lost? If so, then we are in agreement on this matter.
     
    #5 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, of course that is part of what I am saying, once a person is transferred spiritually into Christ, he or she will never be cast out, John 6:37. I have posted this truth dozens of times.

    But I am also saying we (those born anew) can make shipwreck of our faith by professing "another gospel" such as those claiming we can lose our salvation.

    Now there are some who understand 1 Timothy 1:19 to read "shipwreck of "the" faith, thus referring to just the public information concerning the gospel, and not to the possibility a born anew believer might profess errant views of the gospel. I disagree. For example, an Arminian might not be sure of "once saved, always saved" but that does not preclude the person from being born anew. We all see through the glass darkly.
     
    #6 Van, Feb 3, 2023
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "concerning faith have made shipwreck; which designs not the grace, but the doctrine of faith, as before observed, which men may profess, and fall off from, and entirely drop and lose. Though supposing faith as a grace is meant, the phrase, "have made shipwreck of it", is not strong enough to prove the total and final falling away of true believers, could such be thought to be here meant; since persons may be shipwrecked, and not lost, the Apostle Paul was thrice shipwrecked, and each time saved; besides, as there is a true and unfeigned, so there is a feigned and counterfeit faith, which may be in persons who have no true grace, and may be shipwrecked, so as to be lost."

    - excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Timothy 1:19
     
    #7 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #8 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, this view is laughable nonsense. Making shipwreck of our faith is a metaphor and has nothing to do with Paul being actually shipwrecked at sea. Nor does it have anything to do with loss of salvation.

    Yes some who profess faith ("feigned and counterfeit faith") espouse their bogus understanding of "the faith" (the actual gospel.)
     
    #9 Van, Feb 3, 2023
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you are missing the thought John Gill expressed. His point is that being physically shipwrecked(which makes a mess a mess of one's journey) doesn't mean that one is necessarily lost at sea. Likewise, a true believer - one whose sins were imputed to Christ and to whom Christ's perfect righteousness was imputed and whom God has regenerated and given the gifts of faith and repentance - may make a mess of his spiritual journey(using a shipwreck as a metaphor). Thus we have Proverbs 3:11-12:

    My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD;
    Neither be weary of his correction:
    For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth;
    Even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
     
    #10 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "...Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme...."

    5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor 5
     
    #11 kyredneck, Feb 3, 2023
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  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Your point is what in relation to the OP?
     
    #12 KenH, Feb 3, 2023
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...agreeing with Gill in your post #7.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Feb 3, 2023
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  14. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I wonder in what manner they blasphemed, causing them to shipwreck, the faith, they had heard and
    therefore received the Spirit?

    Gal 3:2
     
    #14 percho, Feb 3, 2023
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John Gills commentary is nonsensical and worthless. Just read the passage,
    1 Timothy 1:18-20
    This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

    You make shipwreck in regard to your faith by (1) not keeping faith and a good conscience, and (2) professing falsehoods concerning God.
     
    #15 Van, Feb 4, 2023
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Van's comments about John Gill's commentary being nonsensical and worthless are nonsensical and worthless.
     
    #16 KenH, Feb 4, 2023
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Behold the robotic nonsense, like a bot that just repeats back, from this poster of nonsense, devoid of any analysis of 1 Timothy 1:18-20.

    1 Timothy 1:18-20
    This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

    You make shipwreck in regard to your faith by (1) not keeping faith and a good conscience, and (2) professing falsehoods concerning God.
     
    #17 Van, Feb 4, 2023
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #18 KenH, Feb 4, 2023
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another deflection.

    1 Timothy 1:18-20
    This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

    You make shipwreck in regard to your faith by (1) not keeping faith and a good conscience, and (2) professing falsehoods concerning God.
     
    #19 Van, Feb 4, 2023
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #20 KenH, Feb 4, 2023
    • Funny Funny x 1
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