Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ didnt die for whoever going to hell in their sins. They had no Saviour
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What do you guys think of Author Pinks handling of "Duty Faith"?
- Thread starter Alan Gross
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Christ Jesus is the savior of the world, that is all mankind but only those that will trust in Him will be saved. That seems to be a concept that you do not or rather will not understand and accept.
Since the bible says Christ Jesus is the propitiation for the sins for the whole world of ungodly sinners. And you say there are people in hell because they had no savior my question is why are they there? Don't people suffer the wrath of God because of their sin? Or are you saying that the Holy Spirit got it wrong and Christ Jesus is not the propitiation for the sins for the whole world of ungodly sinners. but only a select few? Do you have clear scripture for that?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
But if they have the ability to refuse then logically they have the ability to accept Christ Jesus, in other words a free will. No man is saved by his free will we are saved by God because of our free will choice to trust in His son.
Actually if if think through what you say Pink said: "He does not say that it means you can actually be saved by your own free will, but he does say there is enough ability there to refuse Christ and choose sin." If they have to refuse to be saved then logically they were saved before they chose to reject salvation so there is free will again.
So we see free will in whatever why you want to look at it. Free will to refuse the salvation they already have or free will to accept the salvation they are offered. Logically if one can be held responsible for rejection they had the real ability to accept the offer.
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DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
If I make a hundred sandwiches and put them on a tray, and place a tray next to it with a bunch of centipedes on it, and then let people come in and choose what they want every person will choose the sandwiches. Was their choice real? Sure. Was it possible to choose the alternative? Yes, but by their nature, people go for the sandwiches instead of the centipedes. The reason what you're saying is false is because you assume an equality of choice that is not according to the reality of our nature. You're trying to say it's like I put out two kinds of sandwiches but the Bible is very clear that our nature heads naturally one way. It is not neutral towards God. That's what Pink is saying.
Duty Faith?... Well these are the books I've read by Pink... His gleaning series... Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Elisha. The Live Of David, Total Depravity, Exposition on John and Hebrews, Why Four Gospels? and The Seven Sayings Of Christ On The Cross... Those are the ones I remember but Duty Faith?... I'll look it over and get back to you... The only one I know into Pink as much as me is kyredneck... Brother Glen
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In his unregenerate state, fallen and depraved man is so completely the slave of sin and the captive of Satan, that he is altogether unable to deliver himself or take one step toward that deliverance; yea, his heart is so corrupt and his mind so at enmity against God, that he has no desire to be brought out of darkness into His marvelous light. Not until the Holy Spirit performs a miracle of grace upon the soul, does its possessor have any spiritual appetite or aspirations; and that miracle He performs only in those for whom Christ died—God’s elect.
Now if we resort to human reasoning it will logically follow that it is quite useless to exhort the unregenerate to turn unto God or come unto Christ; yea, to exhort those who are utterly incompetent to respond, will appear to be most inconsistent and the height of absurdity. But, my reader, the things of God cannot be encompassed by human reason, and the moment we attempt to measure them by the line of our “logic,” we open the door for Satan to deceive by his subtleties. He will tell us that if the Lord our God be one Lord then He cannot be a plurality of Persons, and that if we hold to three Divine Persons we are most “inconsistent” in affirming the unity of God. Satan will tell us that if God be Love then He will never banish any of His creatures to everlasting woe, and that if we hold to eternal punishment of the wicked we are altogether “inconsistent” in believing in the Divine benevolence.
What, then are we to do? This: repudiate all reasoning upon spiritual things as utterly worthless, and believe with the simplicity of a child whatever God’s Word teaches. The Apostles held firmly the revealed truth of a glorious and victorious Messiah, and they could not “harmonize” with that fact a humiliated Messiah that would be crucified: the two things appeared to be altogether “inconsistent” and contradictory. But to them Christ said, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25). That, my reader, should be a lasting warning to us of the utter inadequacy of human logic and philosophizing upon Divine things! We must turn from the vain reasonings of the Unitarian, and while holding fast to the Unity of the Divine nature, we must also believe there are three co-equal Persons in the Godhead. We must turn from the vain reasonings of the Universalist, and while holding fast to the love of God, we must also believe in the eternal punishment of His enemies. And why? Because Holy Scripture teaches both!
This is what I got out of it... God is God... And there is an elect in Heaven... Not a remnant, not a few, but as scripture teaches a multitude no man can number out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation around the throne of God, not because of what they did to get there, that they didn't deserve it but because GOD IS GOD... And the remedy was ready when Adam and Eve first sinned... Because GOD IS GOD!... Brother Glen
Now if we resort to human reasoning it will logically follow that it is quite useless to exhort the unregenerate to turn unto God or come unto Christ; yea, to exhort those who are utterly incompetent to respond, will appear to be most inconsistent and the height of absurdity. But, my reader, the things of God cannot be encompassed by human reason, and the moment we attempt to measure them by the line of our “logic,” we open the door for Satan to deceive by his subtleties. He will tell us that if the Lord our God be one Lord then He cannot be a plurality of Persons, and that if we hold to three Divine Persons we are most “inconsistent” in affirming the unity of God. Satan will tell us that if God be Love then He will never banish any of His creatures to everlasting woe, and that if we hold to eternal punishment of the wicked we are altogether “inconsistent” in believing in the Divine benevolence.
What, then are we to do? This: repudiate all reasoning upon spiritual things as utterly worthless, and believe with the simplicity of a child whatever God’s Word teaches. The Apostles held firmly the revealed truth of a glorious and victorious Messiah, and they could not “harmonize” with that fact a humiliated Messiah that would be crucified: the two things appeared to be altogether “inconsistent” and contradictory. But to them Christ said, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25). That, my reader, should be a lasting warning to us of the utter inadequacy of human logic and philosophizing upon Divine things! We must turn from the vain reasonings of the Unitarian, and while holding fast to the Unity of the Divine nature, we must also believe there are three co-equal Persons in the Godhead. We must turn from the vain reasonings of the Universalist, and while holding fast to the love of God, we must also believe in the eternal punishment of His enemies. And why? Because Holy Scripture teaches both!
This is what I got out of it... God is God... And there is an elect in Heaven... Not a remnant, not a few, but as scripture teaches a multitude no man can number out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation around the throne of God, not because of what they did to get there, that they didn't deserve it but because GOD IS GOD... And the remedy was ready when Adam and Eve first sinned... Because GOD IS GOD!... Brother Glen
LOL, God decides whether or not someone with "righteous faith" and whether someone calls based on "righteous faith." Therefore it not that humans believe or call in a way that saves them, but on the One who decides whether God's purpose has been fulfilled.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ isnt the Saviour of them who go to hell for their sins. Anyone going to hell for their sins, its impossible Christ died for them.
What of those who don’t hear the gospel?
by A.W. Pink
It is the bounden duty of all who hear the Gospel to savingly trust in Christ, otherwise their rejection of Him would be no sin.
Pink continues:
The commission He has given His servants is to preach the Gospel to every creature, and they certainly have not fully obeyed until they bid their hearers “Repent ye, and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15). Whom God quickens, is His own affair; ours is to faithfully warn the unsaved, to show wherein their sins consists (enmity against God), to bid them to throw down the weapons of their warfare against Him, to call upon them to repent (Acts 17:30), to proclaim the One who receives all who come to Him in faith.
Int
Amen!
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
According to John 3:18 the reason people are condemned is because they don't believe. I fully respect the logic that lead the reformers to come up with a limited atonement and it's easy to see how, with a strong view of meticulous sovereignty you could end up with such a view. But does the Bible teach anywhere that the primary determining cause that people are going to Hell is that Christ did not die for them? People are condemned for not believing.
Plus it seems that Calvin didn't say much about it. I'm not saying he didn't believe it, but he didn't seem to talk about it much. Other reformers who did believe it were not held back from inviting people to believe and come to Christ and they specifically said that Christ had already provided a way of redemption for you and was awaiting you to come. Your refusal was the only thing holding you back.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats Gods business.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The only difference between us and those that are in hell is that we have trusted in God and they have not. All of us had the same chance to trust but not all will.
What error do you find in this statement: Christ Jesus is the propitiation for the sins for the whole world of ungodly sinners.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The reason why they dont believe is because they are already condemned. See unbelief persisted in is evidence that one is condemned by the Law and Christ didnt die for them. See God only gives people faith to them whom Christ died for and redeemed them from the curse of the Law. If He didnt die for you, God doesnt give Faith in Christ.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Oh no, the difference between people going to hell for their sins, and people who are going to glory, is the Death of Christ.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Dave the more you say about what those old reformers wrote and preached just makes them sound very confused as to what they actually believed.
I have listened to a few of the modern ones and they preach one thing but then have to tell people to trust in Christ Jesus for salvation. Just confused.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually people are only saved because of the resurrection of Christ Jesus and their free will trust in that fact.
Rom_5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
That it is. Look John Gill says the same thing as Pink, that it’s your duty to preach to all and it’s His to choose his. So why is Gill labeled a hyper Calvinist then..And why are they labeling any Baptist a Calvinist?
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Again people Christ died for, and rose again for, are saved, and thats why they saved. His Work for them made the difference of saved and lost. People who remain lost and die and go to hell, its because Christ didnt die and rise again for.
by A.W. Pink
It is the bounden duty of all who hear the Gospel to savingly trust in Christ, otherwise their rejection of Him would be no sin.
Pink continues:
The commission He has given His servants is to preach the Gospel to every creature, and they certainly have not fully obeyed until they bid their hearers “Repent ye, and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15). Whom God quickens, is His own affair; ours is to faithfully warn the unsaved, to show wherein their sins consists (enmity against God), to bid them to throw down the weapons of their warfare against Him, to call upon them to repent (Acts 17:30), to proclaim the One who receives all who come to Him in faith.
Amen!
so how do you warn the unsaved (who are dead in there sins
by A.W. Pink
It is the bounden duty of all who hear the Gospel to savingly trust in Christ, otherwise their rejection of Him would be no sin.
Pink continues:
The commission He has given His servants is to preach the Gospel to every creature, and they certainly have not fully obeyed until they bid their hearers “Repent ye, and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15). Whom God quickens, is His own affair; ours is to faithfully warn the unsaved, to show wherein their sins consists (enmity against God), to bid them to throw down the weapons of their warfare against Him, to call upon them to repent (Acts 17:30), to proclaim the One who receives all who come to Him in faith.
Amen!
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