1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The verb 'to be' omitted in the NT

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Martin Marprelate, Apr 1, 2023.

  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There seemed to be some doubt about this in a thread which has now been closed.
    I opened my Bible towards the NT and I arrived at Luke 6:20-22. In those three verses, the word 'are' is added three times.. I then turned back to the beatitudes in Matthew 5, and the same thing applies from verse 2 to verse 9.
    If you have a KJV, NKJV or NASB, just spend half an hour reading and you will find plenty of instances. These translations put added words in italics. I would be very surprised if there were not more than a hundred of them. Look at Romans 2:29; there are two instances in the one verse.
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Will one of the mods kindly change 'berb' to 'verb' in the title of the thread?
    It seems I can't do it myself. Sorry!
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,704
    Likes Received:
    1,317
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ah, you’ll get more “views” if you leave it in!
    Change the title to : TO BE OR NOT TO BE

    simple count of English verb "to be"

    NASB - 294 in 275 verses
    ESV - 270 in 257 verses
    NIV - 300 in 283 verses
    AV - 242 in 212 verses​

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Apr 1, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I read it with, and without the italics to see if it makes sense both ways.
     
  5. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Some languages just don’t need such explicit expression. It would sound unnatural or like overkill. For English, omitting it sounds more poetic or affected rather than like commonplace language.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First thank you for talking the time.

    Each case needs to be looked at.
    Verse 20, poor. The subject "Blessed be ye poor:" The ,"be ye" is added for the Greek literally "Blessed the poor."
    "for yours is the kingdom of God." "is" is actually the Greek verb "to be" εστιν.

    I can step through the rest if you want me to.

    Again thank you for talking the time.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The count of the Greek verb "to be" used.
    The count of the English verb "to be" added in addition to the Greek verb "to be."
     
  8. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Broken link in your post.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My post you cited didn't have a link.

    My comment was on Luke 6:20, ". . . Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. . . ."
     
    #9 37818, Apr 2, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, I would like you to step through the rest, please. You asked for examples of places where the verb 'to be' is added; I showed you several, and, whether you like it or not, Luke 6:20 is one of them. ESV. Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven.' Here the translators have added three words, but one of them is 'are.'
    The fact that 'ye' or 'you' is also added is a separate issue, as is the fact that the verb to be shows up later.
    The fact also is that the translators have added the word 'are' because they think, rightly or wrongly, that it helps the sense, but the Greek makes perfect sense without it, otherwise the Holy Spirit would not have written it that way.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The ESV never identifies words added.
    Personally I use a KJV.
    ". . . Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    μακαριοι οι πτωχοι οτι υμετερα εστιν η βασιλεια του θεου

    The subject "Blessed the poor" μακαριοι οι πτωχοι
    And "yours" υμετερα
    In, οτι υμετερα εστιν η βασιλεια του θεου
    εστιν the verb "to be."
    And the add words "be ye" are interpreted from, οτι υμετερα εστιν
    οτι υμετερα εστιν "for yours is"
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke 6:21, ". . . Blessed [are ye] that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. . . ."
    μακαριοι οι πεινωντες νυν οτι χορτασθησεσθε

    μακαριοι οι πεινωντες the subject "Blessed that [the] hunger [hungering].

    νυν, "now."

    The action verb here is, χορτασθησεσθε translated, "ye shall be filled."
    And it is the basis for the internetation giving us the additional words, "are ye" to the subjects.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke 6:21, cont., ". . . Blessed [are ye] that weep now: for ye shall laugh. . . ." Is more of the same. Etc. The verb γελασετε meaning "ye shall laugh" is the basis for the additional words "are ye" to the subjects in this Greek phrase.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    James 2:5, "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? . . ." ,<<Now none of those examples are anything like this verse. Where there is no good contextual reason to add "to be" to this verse.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I know.
    This is all quite right, but you asked for examples of English versions adding the verb 'to be,' and I gave some to you. The reasons for the additions are as you have said, but it doesn't alter the fact that the KJV and just about every other version supplies the verb to be where the Greek omits it, and this it does time after time.
    Here are a few more (I use the NKJV but I expect that the KJV is the same): Romans 12:9-10; 14:14; Ephesians 4:4. As I said, I shall be very surprised if a hundred such examples cannot be found in the N.T..

    You may remember that the origin of all this was a suggestion that the addition of 'to be' in James 2:5 was some sort of nefarious plot to alter the meaning of the verse. However the NKJV also adds the verb 'to be' in James 1:8, 26, James 3:8 and James 3:16 (twice). They do this to help the sense. To write 'For where envy and self-seeking, confusion and every evil thing there' is simply not good English.
     
    #15 Martin Marprelate, Apr 2, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I disagree. To write, '..... hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom......' may perhaps have been good English in 1611, but it isn't so today. It suggests that God chooses the heirs to His kingdom which is a tautology.
    That is why the NKJV is better: 'has not God chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom......' If one is determined to deny election, I suppose one could exchange to be with who are, but although it would read better, it does not avoid the tautology. How could God choose anyone who was not a heir to the kingdom. That's a non sequitur.
    But the NKJV rendering, which is followed by virtually all modern versions, accords with 1 Corinthians 1:26-27, and indeed with Mark 10:25-27.
    I might add that Thomas Manton, who did not have the NKJV in front of him, writes in his commentary on James:
    "Hath not God chosen? that is, by the special designment of grace he hath singled out the poor to be heirs of life."
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not believe it is any kind of nefarious plot. The Greek does not need the additional "to be." Why does the English?
    I think the placement of the "to be" is at issue.
    ". . . Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and [to be] heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? . . ."
     
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Fair enough, but you have replaced one addition with another; in fact, if you want to make it intelligible, you need two additions and one subtraction ('and'):
    ". . . Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world [who are] rich in faith, [to be] heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? . . ." Not all poor people are rich in faith.
    I will stick with the NKJV reading, thanks; IMO, it is the simplest and clearest translation, though I don't expect you to agree.

    And with regard to the O.P., it just shows that it is impossible to translate Greek adequately without making additions, especially of the verb 'to be.'
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You, I think you are being very astute.
    So no. The "and" is the reason for the placement of the added English "to be" after it.
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,514
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The copula eimi (εἰμί), the "to be" verb in Greek, is often omitted when an adjective is used. "In contrast to the attributive adjective, an adjective may also be use as the complement of the verb 'to be,' even when the verb is only implied" (David Alan Black, Learn to Read New Testament Greek, p. 44). It is then called the predicate adjective.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...