Baptist Successionism

I realize it's tongue-in-cheek, but no, John the Baptizer never "pastored" any church.

The Baptists, using that name, formalized in the 1600's, but there were Baptist-type groups throughout history since Christ established His church. That's my belief, from what I've read of history.

 

I have stated this in some way before, the New Testament documents are the sole Apostolic authority and basis of the Baptist succession.

 

As you know, I am a foremost proponent of Baptist Successionism or Baptist Perpetuity. Every day, I am further convinced of its authenticity.

Br. Berlin Hisle mentioned in this


was one of my best teachers. He was quite the historian, with a photographic memory. He tried to teach us to preach in such a way that it would seem like you are sitting over to the side watching yourself, by being Engulfed in the Holy Spirit. And it works. Getting the Holy Spirit in the preaching and wanting it to be Anointed by God, gets all kinds of new scriptures and connections and reasons to shout it out, while in the midst of it all.

John the Baptist was a man named, John, that God Sent to Baptise, by His Authority. Jesus walked 60 miles, or so, to receive John's baptism, by Authority.

Excuse us for having stated things like, "the First Baptist Church at Jerusalem", although we believe it, by faith, it just isn't the kind of thing that is nailable downable. Much like thinking that "Baptist Succession" is provable, historically, in a link-by-link chain Pedigree available for review.

No, that is an indefensible position, and yet it may be alluded to, suggested, or at least accused of us, from some earlier writings (based on overexuberance of the overall reality of the existence of like-faith believers down through the ages and not the kind of statement you would want to try to support in a debate, for example).

Just like, "was John the Baptist the first Baptist?", many of our staunch defenders would maybe use to say, "yes", at first blush, but really, as you have correctly pointed out, Salty, John the Baptist would have had to be a member of a church and he wasn't baptized into one (which is the method we see for becoming a member of a church). So, Jesus was the first Baptist. Or, at least we know He was one, by what He believed. Jesus was Baptist-like.

So, the intention of The Trail of Blood is not to say, "Baptist Succession" is provable, historically, in a link-by-link chain Pedigree available for review."

I came from the College under the auspices of Ashland Avenue Baptist Church, where they first began printing The Trail of Blood.

Our church prints The Trail of Blood.

We have a sign-up for people to gather and assemble the pages, in a big rotation process, and to glue in the map.

I have several next to me that I hand to homeless folks I minister to, along with plenty of other material we print.

Like it says below, The Trail of Blood is a "Baptist Manifesto," giving the indication that 10's of millions of believers have populated the world, since the time of Christ, who had markedly similar beliefs, and who did not have anything to do with Rome, at the cost of 10's of millions of them being tortured to death, drowned, burned alive at the stake, etc.

They believed strongly in salvation by grace, alone, believer's baptism, and the propagation of The Word of God, etc., that they did so at the cost of their lives and families.

This is a brief overview by the father of one of the gals I used to date, as I had mentioned, at Ashland Avenue, the church home of Clarance Walker.

These are some brief outtakes from:

A Perpetuity View of Baptist History
By James R. Duvall, 2009

"It (the Trail of blood) describes in a brief outline form what perpetuity historians had written for nearly two centuries.

"They believed there had been a perpetuity of churches that held the basic doctrines of Baptists, and they were not associated in any way with the Roman Catholic institution.

"J. M. Carroll had previously written in 1923 A History of Texas Baptists, an extensive look at that state's Baptists.

"The Trail of Blood does not claim to be a complete history as such, but what might be called a "Baptist Manifesto," a Reader's Digest format or even a Cliff Notes view of Baptist history. It was written in such a way that pastors and teachers could present a thumbnail sketch of their Baptist heritage."

"Graves promoted the perpetuity view as editor of the Tennessee Baptist weekly newspaper, but the view of Baptists having been in existence since New Testament times had been held by Baptists long before J.R. Graves or Clarence Walker came on the scene.

"Not every Baptist historian has held this perpetuity/successionist view: though many historians saw some kind of connection with dissenting groups that existed during the early periods of European history...

"J.R. Graves and James M. Pendleton, along with A.C. Dayton, began promoting the perpetuity view, as many others had done for a century or more, through their publications in the mid-nineteenth century. The term "Landmarkism" was developed to define it. R.B.C. Howell, a contemporary of theirs, who did not claim to be a 'landmarker' wrote,

"... the Baptist is the only church which can claim the apostolic origin, and that in its organization and objects it is conformed in all respects to the word of God; that the apostolic church was Baptist, and that through several channels it may be readily and surely traced in a state of comparative purity down to our times..."5

"Historian / Baptist minister, Wendell H. Rone, had questions concerning identification: How many and what Baptist principles must a people possess in order to entitle them to be called Baptists? How far may a church depart from the New Testament pattern before it ceases to be a New Testament church?..."

"Believers in perpetuity are virtually unanimous in believing a church is a local, visible body of baptized believers [ecclesia = assembly]...

"The New Hampshire Confession of Faith has been extensively used by Baptist churches and is a basis for this essay.

"Concerning a Gospel Church it states:

"We believe that a visible Church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel. . . ."9

"The entirety of the statement indicates only a local church."

...

From the O.P. article, such statements as "However most scholars agree that the Baptists originated within 17th-century puritanism.[2]"

...are worth about as much as "scholars" being said to correct and change The Word of God, into something it is not.

This statement is entirely incorrect: "The concept attempts to parallel the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican doctrine of apostolic succession..."

It is they, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglicans, that attempt to claim a monopoly on succession, etc.

Nope.

Too high a price was paid by Baptist-like followers of Jesus to buy that kind of malarky.

That article is able to cite some references and mainly depends on critiquing Br. Hisle's book, however, I could give them a hundred more in support of Baptist-like Sussession or perpetuity, from very able historians, etc.

The book from this post is a good reference for defining the beliefs of the various groups, in more detail: BAPTIST CHURCH PERPETUITY, from the Time of Christ, until He Comes Again.

BAPTIST CHURCH PERPETUITY (click link for full .pdf)

or
THE CONTINUOUS EXISTENCE OF BAPTIST CHURCHES
FROM THE APOSTOLIC TO THE PRESENT DAY
DEMONSTRATED BY THE BIBLE AND BY HISTORY.
BY W.A. JARREL, D.D.

 

These are interesting;

"Baptists’ citations of famous Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed, Quaker, Methodist, Campbellite, and earlier Baptist writers on their own succession are also justified by the context of their quotations.

"Uninspired history validates the promises of the inspired and infallible Scriptures that God the Father, through the Spirit, would receive “glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end,”

that “the gates of hell shall not prevail” against the church,

and that Christ would be “with” His assemblies of immersed disciples “alway, even unto the end of the world”
(Ephesians 3:21; Matthew 16:18; 28:20). Amen!

At first, there are some laborious quotations in Latin and old English, but you can scan through those.

Baptist Succession:
Famous Non-Baptist Historical Writers Affirm It
(Hosius, Mosheim, etc.)

Famous Baptist Succession /
History Quotes In Context
by Thomas Ross

"Many Baptists have pointed out some amazing quotations
made by non-Baptist historians.

"These quotes affirm Baptist (or Anabaptist) succession.

"While non-Baptists (and even some Baptists) have claimed that such quotations never were written or were taken out of context, careful research indicates that many of these Baptists’ quotations are correct.

"Indeed, weighty non-Baptist sources affirm the Baptists’ historical succession from the days of Christ to the present day."

This article contains:

"The Roman Catholic Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius
Quote on Baptist Succession"

"This leading anti-Baptist, anti-Protestant Catholic historian of the Reformation era admitted that the Anabaptists existed far, far before the Protestant Reformation, finding their roots in the early centuries of Christianity."
...

"The Dutch Reformed /
Calvinist Leaders Ypeij & Dermout
Quote on Baptist Succession"

"The quotation by these leading Dutch Reformed historians and church officials is accurate: it affirms that the Baptists are the only Christian community that has stood since the time of the Apostles."
...

"The Methodist Scholar John Clark Ridpath
Quote on Baptist Succession"

"There is no objective reason to suspect the reality and accurate reproduction of the correspondence between Dr. Ridpath and Dr. Jarrel. This quotation on Baptist succession is also accurate."
...

"The Lutheran Historian
John Laurence von Mosheim
Quote on Baptist succession"

"Mosheim, thus, likewise provides hostile testimony in favor of Baptist succession."
...

"The Quaker Historian Robert Barclay
Quote on Baptist Succession"

"When Baptists cite this leading Quaker historian, they do so accurately and appropriately."
...

"The Quote by Alexander Campbell,
Founder of the Church of Christ Sect
on Baptist Succession"

"Baptists properly cite the testimony of the leading founder of the Campbellite religious movement about their own history from the time of the Apostles."
...

"The Baptist Charles Spurgeon
Quote on Baptist Succession"

A part of the quote from Charles Spurgeon;

"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians.

"We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves.

"We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river that may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents.

"Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man.

"We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men."
...

"Baptists interpret the Bible properly and in context when they affirm that the church is a local, visible assembly, not something universal and invisible; when they affirm that their church polity and practice of the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper matches that taught in Scripture; and when they recognize that Christ has promised the perpetuity of His congregations until His return.[10]

"Baptists’ citations of famous Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed, Quaker, Methodist, Campbellite, and earlier Baptist writers on their own succession are also justified by the context of their quotations.

"Uninspired history validates the promises of the inspired and infallible Scriptures that God the Father, through the Spirit, would receive “glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end,”

that “the gates of hell shall not prevail” against the church,

and that Christ would be “with” His assemblies of immersed disciples “alway, even unto the end of the world”
(Ephesians 3:21; Matthew 16:18; 28:20). Amen!

 

That booket nevertheless influenced me to come to my Baptist view.

Baptist Successionism

Even though I have disagreement with Landmark Baptist.

 

Do you have an explanation for who the millions of martyrs were that believed in the Lord and opposed the RCC, to the death, by being tortured to death or burned alive at the stake, etc., etc.

Who were they and how and why were they such devote Christians?

FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS
Edited by William Byron Forbush

"This is a book that will never die -- one of the great English classics. . . .

"Reprinted here in its most complete form, it brings to life the days when "a noble army, men and boys, the matron and the maid," "climbed the steep ascent of heaven, 'mid peril, toil, and pain."

"After the Bible itself, no book so profoundly influenced early Protestant sentiment as the Book of Martyrs.

"Even in our time it is still a living force.

"It is more than a record of persecution.

"It is an arsenal of controversy, a storehouse of romance, as well as a source of edification."

Contents

About the book and the author
Chapter I -- History of Christian Martyrs to the First General Persecutions Under Nero
Chapter II -- The Ten Primitive Persecutions
Chapter III -- Persecutions of the Christians in Persia
Chapter IV -- Papal Persecutions
Chapter V -- An Account of the Inquisition
Chapter VI -- An Account of the Persecutions in Italy, Under the Papacy
Chapter VII -- An Account of the Life and Persecutions of John Wickliffe
Chapter VIII -- An Account of the Persecutions in Bohemia Under the Papacy
Chapter IX -- An Account of the Life and Persecutions of Martin Luther
Chapter X -- General Persecutions in Germany
Chapter XI -- An Account of the Persecutions in the Netherlands
Chapter XII -- The Life and Story of the True Servant and Martyr of God, William Tyndale
Chapter XIII -- An Account of the Life of John Calvin
Chapter XIV -- Prior to the Reign of Queen Mary I
Chapter XV -- An Account of the Persecutions in Scotland During the Reign of King Henry VIII
Chapter XVI -- Persecutions in England During the Reign of Queen Mary
Chapter XVII -- Rise and Progress of the Protestant Religion in Ireland; with an Account of the Barbarous Massacre of 1641
Chapter XVIII -- The Rise, Progress, Persecutions, and Sufferings of the Quakers
Chapter XIX -- An Account of the Life and Persecutions of John Bunyan
Chapter XX -- An Account of the Life of John Wesley
Chapter XXI -- Persecutions of the French Protestants in the South of France, During the Years 1814 and 1820
Chapter XXII -- The Beginnings of American Foreign Missions