Featured Christ's victory over Satan

Enjoy your family … this has waited 2000 years, it will wait another week.

 

Ok, that is how you see this. My view is not a commonly understood view. God is omnipresent. Ezekiel 18:32.

 

The scriptures does say, "great is the mystery of godliness," and indeed it is a great mystery and probably no one will figure God out on this side of glory. However, saying that does bring up a question. If Jesus Christ our substitute died on the cross and paid the penalty of our sins there, what does that mean? I think it means that everything he suffered on the cross during those last three hours is what any unsaved person can expect to receive and suffer for eternity. Certainly God is not present in his suffering because it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered in our place. God is a tripartite being and all during the material life of Jesus the holy Spirit had indwelt him and gave him spiritual life so he could communicate intimately with the Father who was in heaven. Indeed, that is what he said he did in John 12, among other places.

If the Spirit had not departed the body of Jesus then it would have been Jesus and the Spirit of God who would have died for us. But the Spirit cannot die because he is life. He is the life of God. Jesus was going to die like the first Adam died. Adam died when he sinned and sin was in him and upon him. God departed but he was still alive physically. Sin was the cause of death. Adam died physically after he died spiritually, when he was 930 years old. The wages of sin is death. Sin was never in Jesus but it was upon him and he suffered the justice and the wrath of God for all sin in one act on the tree and Jesus died at 12 o'clock. He died spiritually. The Spirit departed his body and Jesus was left alone, soul and body, to suffer. The proof of that is the lights went out and darkness replaced it.
John said about Jesus, the WORD, "in him was life and the life was the light of men." Unsaved sinners will be alone in the lake of fire for eternity and forgotten even by God and Jesus would cry out "my God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me." Jude said they are wandering stars in whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. There are other things that are important that I will not name now. The hands and feet are tied in the lake of fire. Just as the hands and feet of Jesus were bound by the nails. God and all men forsook Jesus while he suffered on that tree.

It was the Spirit of God that raised up the body of Jesus from the dead. How ever anyone chooses to define being dead, Jesus really was dead for three days, not because I say it but because God says it. Spiritual death is the body without the Spirit of God. Eternal life is the physical body with the divine occupant, the Holy Spirit in it, along with the human soul, the identity of the person.

I must at least prove one thing but I am not taking the time to prove everything I have said in this post. But I could prove it with scripture in context if asked.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Jesus was dead until his body was raised up, quickened by the Spirit. Obviously, his soul had come up from paradise where it had been for the three days, and entered his body at the same time and Jesus was glorified in his body.

These are wonderful truths and God is a gracious and kind and wonderful savior to sacrifice himself for me and for you. All it takes for anyone to be saved from their sins is to repent of their sins and trust that God will give us the righteousness of Christ because he gave Christ the punishment for our sins and then raised him to life, never to die again. It is his life that he will give us if we will receive it by faith. He emptied himself of this life on the cross.

 

You are not agreeing with God on how he defines death. There is a problem with heretics being trusted to define heresy.

 

Vain rhetoric. You really need to specify points of issue. Otherwise you are only saying nonsense.

 

Your one liners often makes little or no sense to me either.

 

That's my point. It seems to bother you if it's reformers who disagree with your view of the atonement but it doesn't seem to bother you if it's early church fathers who disagree with you on the same subject. Your standard shifts based on how you perceive they align with your own views. We all do it I guess.

No I don't. But the idea of a Ransom is mentioned a couple of times in scripture and is therefore true. I do think the ECF's and even up into the Puritan era there was a much more vivid cosmic battle going on between God and Satan in the minds of people. And I think it may me to our loss that we have lost some of that awareness. Remember in Pilgrims Progress when Christian meets Apollyon on the road and Apollyon says "Aren't you one of my subjects?" Then he promises Christian greater wages and success if he will turn around and go back into his proper kingdom. Much of Jesus own ministry involved teaching about his coming kingdom and I noticed G. Campbell Morgan had a lot about how that itself related to the crucifixion and the atonement. Allistair Begg has a sermon on the idea of a ransom and he relates it to the idea of the Old Testament teaching on if you had an ox that was known to be dangerous and you did not restrain it and it killed someone you would, as the owner, be subject to death but there was mention of a way to ransom out of the penalty. You could go on and on and to be honest - that's exactly what we should do over such an important subject.

In fact. Listing all the aspects of the atonement you can think of is a far better way than by saying that it has to be this or that "theory". In post #39 those things listed are excellent. I would say your second list has some overlap into the first list though.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

 

The redeemed are redeemed from the Devil's hell, Matthew 25:41.

 

Between post #1 and the MLJ sermon and my post 33 I don't know what else to tell you. I thought I had explained it in post 33.
Maybe this will help. In your list points 2,4,5,6 and 8 for instance. Can you give me one single theologian or an active or past pastor who believes those points that you have listed - and yet denies penal substitution.