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Trump and Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by JonC, Jul 23, 2023.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Trump has called for the death penalty for drug dealers, noting that 500 American citizens die of drugs on average and millions more are negatively affected by drugs. He recommended having a police car at every corner (I assume in problematic areas).

    More recently he repeated that solution and included human traffickers to be executed.

    I believe drugs and human trafficking is horrible.
    Also, I'm sure the death penalty would reduce the crime

    But how does a Christian respond to actually recommending the death penalty for drugs and human trafficking?
     
    #1 JonC, Jul 23, 2023
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    A person who is found guilty of a major crime and given the death penalty - He made the choice to commit such a crime. Such punishment should be reserved for a major crime - ie - First Degree murder -
     
    #2 Salty, Jul 23, 2023
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I understand the argument for capital punishment when the charge is 1st degree murder. Personally, I believe it wrong, but I understand the argument. Biblically (OT) there are two people who put their lives up as collateral providing testimony that the criminal committed the crime.

    But can a Christian support a leader who has said if elected he will work to execute human traffickers and drug dealers?

    If so, what crimes (or "crimes") could be added to the list in the future?
     
    #3 JonC, Jul 23, 2023
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I personally oppose the death penalty while recognizing the State has the God given authority to exercise it. I don’t believe Christians should support it, so I don’t support expanding it to include new crimes.

    At some point in the US, (already in some countries) the death penalty will be expanded to include evangelical Christians. We will be accused of preaching hate and violence toward certain groups.

    During that time, as Jesus said, professing Christians will turn on each other (brother against brother…..) in a great apostasy (turning away).

    Supporting the expansion of death penalty now is laying the foundation for future persecution of Christians.

    peace to you
     
    #4 canadyjd, Jul 24, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I completely agree.

    Your conclusion (that supporting the expansion of death penalty now is laying the foundation for future persecution of Christians) was exactly what I was thinking.

    Christians who support the death penalty on "biblical grounds" ignore that the OT applied the death penalty even to accidental killing (but not military action). They also ignore the requirement of two witnesses who back their testimony with their lives.

    But they typically pick up on murder as a reason.

    I wonder how this will change if the death penalty is expanded to other crimes (as Trump suggests). Will those Christians revise their criteria and back the executions? If so, how will they phrase this to appear "biblical".

    It is very much like the abortion issue as people ultimately end up justifying what would be biblically called murder.

    The reason I bring this up is when I saw the report it was on a site comprised of professing Christians talking about how killing men for crimes other than shedding man's blood is the right thing to do.
     
    #5 JonC, Jul 25, 2023
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Jon - you are right - I did not answer the question - (specifically regarding drugs)
    about the death penalty
    So - I started a new thread on the Death penalty
    please go there for a general discussion

    and on this thread - restrict it to the OP

    Jons OP in part: "Trump has called for the death penalty for drug dealers, noting that 500 American citizens die of drugs on average and millions more are negatively affected by drugs. He recommended having a police car at every corner"

    Let the discussion continue
     
    #6 Salty, Jul 25, 2023
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing!"... Brother Glen:)
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Jul 25, 2023
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What do you think should be done (Trump is popular with conservative Christians, how should they respond to killing drug dealers and kidnappers?).
     
    #8 JonC, Jul 26, 2023
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    A side story about the death penalty.

    I saw a report on the news back in the 1900’s, I think, when the Taliban controlled Afghanistan. A man was accused of raping a child and sentenced to immediate execution.

    To execute the man, he was forced to stand in front of a shell of a destroyed building and a concrete wall was pulled over on top of him (I kid you not)

    The man survived and was declared innocent because God had spared his life.

    I do not support the death penalty, while recognizing the state does have that authority.

    What are appropriate methods of execution? I have heard hanging is the most efficient (instant death) though if the weight in the feet is too much you might decapitate.

    For those wanting to watch people die, how would a decapitation make you feel?

    peace to you
     
    #9 canadyjd, Jul 26, 2023
  10. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    That’s a loaded question, much like, "Do you still beat your wife?" What it shouldn’t imply, but seems to, is that those favoring a death penalty are “wanting to watch people die.”

    Probably most if not all supporting a death penalty are tired of repeatedly having “to watch people die” at the hands of murderers, human traffickers, drug dealers, abortionists.
     
    #10 RighteousnessTemperance&, Jul 30, 2023
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In a way. But traditionally (certainly in the OT) people were executed in public.

    This includes decapitation, of course.

    But it does not mean actually wanting to watch people die. Although....history does indicate some had such a desire.

    That said, I get your your objection. Most who support the death penalty have no desire to watch those people die. I suspect many who are witnesses of executions do not desire to witness the event.

    I do believe that those in favor of the death penalty should be required to be on a pool of witnesses to the event (like jury duty). It would be better if they had a way of participating.

    The reason is that it's important to be willing to do what we would require of others. It is one thing to cast a vote, another to participate in the thing we support.
     
    #11 JonC, Jul 30, 2023
  12. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Right. Mine is a very valid objection. It's one thing to have a duty to fulfill something repugnant; quite another to desire it. Those in the latter category should check their hearts very closely. Or better yet, have God do the checking.

    “‘Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?’” (Ezekiel 18:23).

    “Say unto them: ‘As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?’” (Ezekiel 33:11).
     
    #12 RighteousnessTemperance&, Jul 30, 2023
  13. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Some of the more competent, whether for or against the death penalty, should be doing more than just witnessing executions. They should be ministering to those on death row, giving every opportunity to turn to Christ in repentance, like that one thief on the cross did.
     
    #13 RighteousnessTemperance&, Jul 30, 2023
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We should all be doing that, given the opportunity.

    I have found over the years that many Christians have no desire to witness to criminals who have committed certain crimes (murder, rape, child abuse). I hope this is not most (in all optimism, I trust it is not most). But the most vocal when it comes to hatred seem to be professing Christians.
     
    #14 JonC, Jul 30, 2023
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. We see this in a simple form when we discipline our children. We use punishment as a form of correction, but taking pleasure in that punishment amounts to abuse.
     
    #15 JonC, Jul 30, 2023
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  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Why not ban Naloxone and allow those who die of an overdose to remain dead? That would deter drug use, too.

    The two flaws are:
    1. It will not work (except for the person that is dead). It ignores the nature of addiction. Murdering SINNERS only stops the dead person from sinning, everyone else is still a slave to sin.
    2. Imageo Dei - we (Christians) are supposed to be the champions of LIFE because our God is a God of HOPE and CHANGE and SECOND CHANCES. To embrace ‘Death’ as the solution is to say that “God cannot save THEM, God cannot change THEM, THEY are beyond GRACE and HOPE.” To quote Paul … “May that NEVER be!” (Our message).
     
    #16 atpollard, Jul 30, 2023
  17. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    That’s really an apples to oranges comparison with what is being proposed here. Drug users are not drug dealers.
     
    #17 RighteousnessTemperance&, Jul 30, 2023
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm wondering if a Christian would support the death penalty for drug dealers, and if so how they would justify the position.
     
    #18 JonC, Jul 30, 2023
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    My post was in response to someone saying they wanted to watch the execution.

    I’m tired of watching people die, being murdered, as well. I just don’t think Christians supporting the death penalty is biblical.

    The Apostle Paul states in 1 Timothy 1:16 that Jesus Christ showed mercy to him as an example that future Christians are to folllw.

    Paul was a murderer, by his own admission, of Christians. He calls himself the foremost sinner.

    We are to show mercy to sinners, even murderers like Paul, by the command of our Lord Jesus.

    Killing people is not showing mercy. Supporting others (t including the State) killing people is not showing mercy.

    peace to you
     
    #18 canadyjd, Jul 31, 2023
  20. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. I didn't catch that. Carry on.
     
    #19 RighteousnessTemperance&, Jul 31, 2023
  21. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Since the NT is silent of the Death Penalty - I believe it is an acceptable punishment for certain crimes.

    However, I do not think that drug related crimes - in themselves would deserve the death penalty. Unless such action would result in the death of someone.

    Am I glad when someone is executed - NO! But - especially for first degree murder - the death penalty is an appropriate penalty
     
    #20 Salty, Aug 1, 2023
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