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Toll Rd

Discussion in 'Travel Forum' started by Salty, Jul 31, 2023.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What are you thoughts about having toll roads?

    Here in NY, the main toll road in the NY Thruway
    Most of I-90 and I-87 -is toll
    When the Thruway was built - the policy was that when
    the bonds were paid off -then the tolls would end.
    That was supposed to be paid off in the 1990's

    BUT - the tolls continues. The advantage - is that the Thruway maint
    is paid for by users - not the Taxpayers. This included out-of-staters
    (who of course, do not pay income tax).
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    From a review of a book entitled, Highway Heist, by James T. Bennett:

    "Highway Heist inspires some counterfactual thinking: What if we had left road construction to private enterprise? The road network that began with private toll roads would have continued to develop if governments hadn’t intervened. People would never have gotten hooked on the notion that driving should be “free.” The roads and bridges would have been better maintained under private ownership than under government control, with politicians often skimping on maintenance in favor of spending that does them more immediate political good."

    - rest at Do Our Roads Have to be Built by Government? | AIER
     
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    methinks that roads come under the "general welfare"......
     
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  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    As a minarchist, I disagree. Unfortunately, that definition of "general welfare" is used to cover a great deal of the federal government's unconstitutional size, scope, and reach.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    They should never be a sole access way. And they should have required reasonable exists to allow one to leave a toll road.

    I hate toll roads.

    I would vote to ban toll roads.
     
  6. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    In France most Autoroutes are toll roads. The exceptions are Road large towns and along borders like with Begium and Germany.

    French tolls are péage. I always wondered what it meant in the scripture where it says, Matthew sat in receipt of Custom. In my wife's French bible Matthew sat in the Péage. So now I got it, he was collecting Autoroute fees.

    Here in England the Dartford tunnel was a toll road when it was built and we were promised that when it was paid for it would be free. But when it was paid for, the traffic had built up so much that they needed to build a new bridge next to it, so they "had" to use the toll for that.That must be paid for by now, but we still have a charge which now you have to pay online within a week. Last weekend they updated the software and it has been impossible for people to get on their website, but they say you still have to pay, and have extended the period in which you have to pay.
     
    #6 David Kent, Aug 1, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2023
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Access to public roads is indeed required to "promote general welfare." However the construction and maintenance should remain in private, profit driven, firms. Do a good, quick and efficient job, and the reward will be more work. Do a slow overly costly job and you will be driven out of business.

    The fewer tasks given to the government, the better, as demonstrated by the difference in outcomes between private schools and government run schools.

    Toll roads where the charge is paid electronically, i.e no toll booths, would be a proven way to obtain the funding for maintence.

    New construction would seem to require more of government power to overrule NIMBY opposition to corridors for infrastructure such as utilities such as power, water, and roads. However once the route has been obtained (Eminent domain confiscation) then construction should be by private firms using the bidding selection process. Directed selection (crony capitalism) should be prevented.

    As Ronald Reagan might have said, the less done by government the better.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Here in NY -the electronic billing is okay, if you have the E-Z pass
    BUT if you do not have an E-Z pass -the cost - well suppose you only go one exit. The Cost would be about 25 cents with E-Z pass - but without E-Z the cost would be about 30 cents + a monthly 1.50 admin charge!
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I do not know is there is an additional cost for not using the E-Z pass system in California, but anyone can use the toll roads, they just have to call and pay the toll with "5" days or fees and fines start piling on.

    Perhaps an "E-Z" pass account might be required for vehicle registration such that most users would pay the same for the same road usage.
     
  10. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and out of states who have there State/Commonwealth "E-Z" pass pay a bit more than New Yorkers but less than those who have no EZ- pass.


    From East Syracuse (X 35) to Niagara Falls (X47)

    E-Z Pass.............Non-NY E-Z pass.....No E-Z pass
    6.32......................7.28...........................8.22 **

    %..........................115.1%....................130.1%

    ** does not include the $1.50 admin fee.

    Link for NY Thurway
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The problem with switching the funding from fuel tax to a usage tax (toll roads) is that then new charges will be applied but the old charges not fully rescinded. Government does not keep its word, i.e the toll charges did not go away after the construction was paid for. Or back in Mr. Reagan's day, they made a border deal, got the immunity but never fulfilled the border security promise. Or in Mr. W. Bush's day, they got the money to spend more on schools, but when the school performance aspect would have taken effect, the "no child left behind" program was abandoned.

    But still people vote for the "we need bigger government" enslavement party.
     
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