Featured Salvation in Two separate and Distinct Steps

But none of us desire to be saved. - seek after God, no not one per Paul in Romans

salvation is something God does to us and for us ie, the new birth (regeneration) which leads to repentance and faith.

 

I am just curious, if no one seeks God and no one can trust in God unless they are born again by God and He has to give them faith so they will believe. Why did Christ have to go to the cross? You're saved before you even trust in Him according to your theology and God only gives faith to those He has pre-selected. So all the build up about the Messiah coming that would save the world is, according to your theology, just theater.

The reality is the under your theology our desire to seek God or to be saved has zero impact on the outcome.
For the absolutely elect must have been saved without him;
and the non-elect cannot be saved by him

So the reality, as seen from your theology, is just eat, drink and be merry as you have nothing to do with being saved. Either you won the lottery or you did not and how would you ever know into which group you fell. So why all the theater of the OT or NT.

Now you should be able to give me a reasonable answer to those questions.

 

Was Paul seeking God on the Road to Damascus? No, he was killing christians

was Abram seeking God? No, he was a true pagan

you are correct, we had absolutely
Nothing to do w being born again. The Spirit does as He wills according to Jesus in John 3

the New Birth sets us free from the constraints of sin and rebellion. John 3



we only seek God because God stirs our hearts w conviction. See John 6

Christs ministry was def not theatre. He demonstrated Gods love towards sinners, made an atonement on the Cross, and gave gifts to men. Eph 4:7-8

 

But you did not answer why Christ had to go to the cross under your theological view. We are told in the scriptures that we are saved by faith in the risen Christ. But according to your theology that faith is given to you after you are saved.

So I ask again, why did Christ have to go to the cross?

Since we are not Paul or Abraham the comment while true is not relevant to the question is it? But the bible does indicate that we will be held responsible for how we deal with the information God gives us so God must conclude that we can actually seek Him and find Him.

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This is what the bible shows us, God expects us to seek Him and He has provide the reason why we would do so {John 16:8} and will judge us for how we respond to that prompting.

So we can see from a biblical perspective that it was necessary for Christ to be crucified and to raise again. {John 3:14-18} But form the perspective of your theological view the question is why would that be necessary?

The reality is the under your theology our desire to seek God or to be saved has zero impact on the outcome.
For the absolutely elect must have been saved without him;
and the non-elect cannot be saved by him.

I agree the biblical crucifixion was not theatre. But under your theology it has been made to be just that. You have denied the necessity of a risen Christ.

Loraine Boettner
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved.

R.C. Sproul
If there’s one phrase that captures the essence of reformed theology, it is the little phrase,regeneration precedes faith.

 

To make an atonement for sin

 

Yes the atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ is important and that is a biblical response. But you have not answered the question from the calvinist point of view. Under your theology it is not your trust in the risen Christ that saves but rather whether you were pre-chosen. Your theology has you saved before you even believe. {see Boettner, Sproul post # 9}

I have seen it claimed that calvinism is the gospel so if that is true then you must be able to provide clear contextual evidence that fits your theology.

So I ask again, from the calvinist perspective, why did Christ have to go to the cross?

 

When one is born again - Yes Faith is expressed 100% of the time

it is a wake up call

 

Still not answering the question are you? Canned answers are your stock in trade. Try giving one that actually addresses the question.

So I ask again, from the calvinist perspective, why did Christ have to go to the cross?

 

It boils down to our understanding of God, Grace and the WOG

I believe that man is truly at the mercy of God (the New Birth to change our hearts) until God does something, man can do nothing.

you believe that man is ultimately at the mercy of his own will and that our wills can manipulate God into saving us.

Ultimately, when God changes our hearts, He frees us (implants faith into our hearts) to believe the Gospel. Until then, man is in bondage and dead in trespasses and sin Eph 2:1

 

You are still not dealing with the problem of calvinism which I have pointed out to you a number of times.

So I ask again, from the calvinist perspective, why did Christ have to go to the cross? Why is that so hard for you to answer? If your view is biblical you should have clear contextual support for it. Do you?

Actually what you have said re what I believe is a total mischaracterization.The bible, which I agree with, says we are saved by God because we believe in His son. Calvinism says you are saved before you even believe in the son and even have to be given faith. So who has the false gospel?

Come on @Marooncat79 support your view from scripture or admit that it is just a philosophical construct.

 

How To Be Saved | Page 7 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

 

Show me 1 post I made denying the resurrection.


Clue: it has never happened

 

Again to appease the wrath of God