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Featured Study Question: Revelation 12:1-6 - Who is the Woman?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 21, 2023.

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  1. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Are you calling the early church Fathers "Pharisaical" Christians?
     
    #41 taisto, Aug 23, 2023
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Are you denying Jesus taught that the existing interpretations of God's word made God's word to no effect?

    This is all the defenders of darkness have, false charges hidden in question implications, change of subject questions and of course personal disparagement.

    Since Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit, your view the women was "the promise of a redeemer" rather than the agent used, the Holy Spirit, seems possible but not probable. Matthew 1:18.

    But is the woman's "Child" Jesus or the born anew members of His church or both? The church will be caught up to God. Certainly both came into being by the Holy Spirit. Note the convenient phrase "body of Christ" folds both into one.
     
    #42 Van, Aug 24, 2023
  3. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    The teaching is that the Woman is the Israel of God. The line of the saints that "gave birth" to the Promised One who died for the sins of all God has given Him and then ascended to heaven. Those who come to trust in the Promised One who is ascended on high are now living in the wilderness.

    Van, it's the teaching of the early believers. You can follow their understanding or make up your own.
     
    #43 taisto, Aug 24, 2023
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again, the charge that the Biblical illustration does not refer to the Holy Spirit, but no evidence is offered. Was Mary pregnant by the Holy Spirit? Yes.

    Will the indwelt church be taken out of the way, thus removing the Restrainer? You bet.
     
    #44 Van, Aug 24, 2023
  5. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    It seems you refuse the evidence provided, and the early church understanding of the passage.
    You are reading your futurism into the text.
     
    #45 taisto, Aug 24, 2023
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More generalities, more disparagement, but no specifics. Go figure.

    Was Mary pregnant by the Spirit? Yes
    Will the indwelt Church be taken out of the way? Yes
    Is there anything in scripture that precludes the "woman" being the Holy Spirit personified? Not that I know of.
     
    #46 Van, Aug 24, 2023
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all, Gal 4:26

    Is the church, Jerusalem above, Zion? Is she mother by having given birth or by being with children?

    Scripture that inspired the question.

    Isa 66:8 NKJV
    Who has heard such a thing?
    Who has seen such things?
    Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
    Or shall a nation be born at once?
    For as soon as Zion was in labor,
    She gave birth to her children.
     
    #47 percho, Aug 24, 2023
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Relative to the OP, does it matter that in the Greek, Woman is inspired eight times in chapter 12 yet only in verse 1 is woman not preceded by the article, the?
     
    #48 percho, Aug 24, 2023
  9. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    The Church isn't taken out of the way. The Church is protected from Satan as Satan is presently bound from destroying the Church.
    Van, have you ever read an amillennial view on Revelation? Pick up Kim Riddlebarger's book on Revelation as he reiterates the Amillennial view that has been taught for over a 1500 years.
    The Book of Revelation is a Surprisingly Practical Book — The Riddleblog
     
    #49 taisto, Aug 24, 2023
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  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The weird doctrines that show up on this board sometimes
     
    #50 Revmitchell, Aug 24, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have studied all the views, and accept progressive dispensationalism. When the church is raptured, it is taken out of the way. So you are saying the church is not raptured. Fine, we disagree yet again.
     
    #51 Van, Aug 25, 2023
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This post was appended with "Informative" but I think it is "uninformative."

    It is not addressed to any poster and does not identify which views are "weird doctrines."

    I agree that cultish views and minority views, such as you need to be water baptized to be saved, or the Fall did not predispose everyone to sinful behavior are posted repeatedly.
     
    #52 Van, Aug 25, 2023
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Oh No! You don't like my post! What will I ever do! Have a heart attack and die of not surprised!
     
    #53 Revmitchell, Aug 25, 2023
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Another uninformative post. Go figure... :)
    Cultish views and minority views, such as you need to be water baptized to be saved, or the Fall did not predispose everyone to sinful behavior are posted repeatedly.

    Was Mary pregnant by the Spirit? Yes
    Will the indwelt Church be taken out of the way? Yes
    Is there anything in scripture that precludes the "woman" being the Holy Spirit personified? Not that I know of.
     
    #54 Van, Aug 25, 2023
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If you throw a rock in a pack of dogs....the one the yelps got hit.
     
    #55 Revmitchell, Aug 25, 2023
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Another uninformative yelp Go figure... :)
    Cultish views and minority views, such as you need to be water baptized to be saved, or the Fall did not predispose everyone to sinful behavior are posted repeatedly.

    This is all the defenders of darkness have, false charges hidden in question implications, change of subject questions and of course personal disparagement.

    Since Mary was pregnant by the Holy Spirit, the view the women was "the promise of a redeemer" rather than the agent used, the Holy Spirit, seems possible but not probable. Matthew 1:18.

    But is the woman's "Child" Jesus or the born anew members of His church or both? The church will be caught up to God. Certainly both came into being by the Holy Spirit. Note the convenient phrase "body of Christ" folds both into one.
     
    #56 Van, Aug 25, 2023
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    #23

     
    #57 kyredneck, Aug 25, 2023
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I disagree
    1) Revelation 12:1-2 speaks of one woman, not two.
    2) the "mother" who gave birth both to Christ and His spiritual body can be the Holy Spirit.
    3) We who are born anew, were initially born into slavery, i.e. Hagar's children, but have now been born anew into liberty, children of God with the Holy Spirit acting as agent, i.e. "mother."
     
    #58 Van, Aug 25, 2023
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    #59 kyredneck, Aug 25, 2023
  20. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    I am saying the overwhelming prevailing view on Revelation from the early church, until the 20th Century, was Amillennial. Futurism was introduced by John Darby in the 19th Century. It has as many leaks as a mesh bag when it comes to understanding Revelation and it makes most of Revelation irrelevant to the believer's present life.
    However, Amillennial understanding makes this book absolutely relevant and wonderfully encouraging so that the promise of listening to this book being a blessing is absolutely true for everyday living.
    Futurism simply leads to needless speculation on events around us as though they had secret codes to decipher.

    Indeed, we will have to disagree.
     
    #60 taisto, Aug 25, 2023
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