Featured The New Testament teaches The Doctrines of Grace.

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The trinity is a provable doctrine and the evidence for it abounds in the scriptures. It is the signature of God on all his creation. One in three and three in one. The church of Jesus Christ, his body, for instance, is a trinity and is fashioned from both Jews and gentiles who are converted and indwelt by the Spirit. You can see it here in a letter where the burden of the author is to explain it.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both (Jew and gentile in context) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (The enmity is the law of ordinances like the dietary laws - see Acts 10)
19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the Jewish saints who were in the body first), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ (I have underlined a trinitarian foundation) himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (Jew, gentile, Holy Spirit)
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

My doctrinal position is far superior to yours because I believe the words I read in scripture, and use reason and logic and prayer to understand them. I am not superior to anyone. I have given my scriptural justification for everything I have said. You being sola scriptura should applaud that practice.

 

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day."

• "No one can come to me"= [Total Inability]
  • no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God [Romans 3:11]
• "unless the Father who sent me"= [Unconditional Election]
  • it does not depend on human will or effort but on God who shows mercy [Romans 9:16]
• "draws him,"= [Irresistible Grace]
  • those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.[Romans 8:30]
• "and I will raise him up on the last day." = [Preservation of the Saints]
  • "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand." [John 10:28]

RED = Jesus
BLUE = Scripture
BLACK = Reference

 

The doctrines of grace, AKA (1) Total Spiritual Inability, (2) Unconditional Election, (3) Limited Atonement, Christ died only for the elect) and (4) Irresistible Grace, AKA the Gift of Faith, are precluded by the very passages cited in the OP.

 

As supposed. But John 6:45 explains, ". . . It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. . . ."
As per Isaiah 54:13, ". . . And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. . . ." And, Jeremiah 31:33, ". . . But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ."
With John 6:46-47.

 

You have to admit this is a hilarious irony!

 

You are not favored by God above other sinners. Get over yourself. Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall.


Pride is the one disease that makes the one who has it feel good but makes every one around them sick.

It is tiresome listening to you guys exalt yourselves.

 

I would like to introduce an amazing truth, already knowing that it will not be accepted by most if not all the readers of this post. I will be brief and not be in-depth on this revelation. We have discussed the epistle to the Ephesians on another thread and now we are discussing the doctrines of grace (of course there is no such doctrines) that Calvinists seem to get mostly from this epistle. I would like to discuss the verses from this book that I presented in my last post.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both (Jew and gentile in context) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (The enmity is the law of ordinances like the dietary laws - see Acts 10)
19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the Jewish saints who were in the body first), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ (I have underlined a trinitarian foundation) himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (Jew, gentile, Holy Spirit)
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This language is similar to Peter's words in his first epistle particularly. Look!

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Notice that Peter mentioned Asia as being included as one of the places where the strangers to whom he writes are located. Asia is not a continent here but a province. It is in this province wherein Ephesus is the chief city. Paul ministered here and in this area on his first missionary journey. He was in Ephesus for three years. He started several churches in the province of Galatia and he ministered in Cappadocia and Bithynia, all provincial divisions of Asia Minor. Paul, though a Benjamite, a Jew, was born and spent his early years in Tarsus, which was in this region.

In Galatians 2 we are told that Peter and the other apostles were ministers to the circumcision and Paul, with the aid of Barnabas, would minister to the gentiles. Well, it appears that both Paul and Peter in the earlier part of their ministry preached to the same people. They described them in some of the same terms, Both called them "strangers." Now, what is a stranger. Paul gives us at least a partial description of what he means by stranger in the portion I quoted above. Look at it again;


19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (the Jewish saints who were in the body first), and of the household of God;

Why use language like "no more strangers and foreigners? Had they not, like Paul, been born there and grew up there? Had not generations of them before been born and grown up there? Why are they strangers and foreigners in that land? Is it not because they were not in their own land but they were the same "gentiles" that Paul addressed in Romans 9? Were these not of that ten tribe nation of Israel on whom God pronounced a curse in the prophesy of Hosea, driving them off the land that they were to occupy under the Abrahamic covenant? Are they not for all intents and purposes gentiles when they are cut off from their covenants and the relationship with God and are under the authority of the gentile nations? Isn't this, after 700 years of being strangers in a land that is not theirs, the fulfillment of God's prophesy that he would visit them again and they would be called the "sons of the living God?" Is that not what they were called in 1 Peter? Read this;


This is to the strangers in Asia Minor.
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Read Verse 22 and 1 Peter 1:1-2 together;

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

They are elected by obeying the truth and, Chapter 1, verse 2 and verse 22 has the phrase :through the Spirit." He is the agency of their new birth. His being in their bodies sets them apart from others and puts them in the household of God.

The foreknowledge of God was intimated here;

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

To be a son of God requires a new birth. Jesus Christ made that possible through his death and resurrection. He sent his Spirit to give them eternal life in his family. God cannot die.

God knew he would make provision for their new birth. It was according to his foreknowledge. Look at this;

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Paul said the gospel must go to Israel first and the Bible and geography and history affirms that it did. One can learn from God by believing his words. These are just wonderful truths. There is much to know but I am out of space now.

 

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Above are all the passages where Paul used the word "strangers" to designate Christians to whom he was speaking in all his 13 letters. It is very instructive to understand it was only to the church at Ephesus whom he called strangers and foreigners. Timothy was the pastor at the church of Ephesus when Paul wrote the two pastoral letters to him. This forces us to evaluate the noun "strangers" as being the kinsmen of Paul, the same that both he and Peter addressed, James and John addressed them in their letters as well.

Paul did not call any gentiles from Europe in any of the churches that he ministered in "strangers." The reason; they were not strangers in that land. Not even Lydia at Philippi, who seemed to be the first European convert of Paul in Acts 16. She was from Asia, the city of Thyatira. All evidence points to her not being one of the strangers of Asia.

Here are all the passages that speak of strangers in Acts. One can see that our Bible sets forth the term for those of Israel who are out of their homeland.

Ac 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Ac 7:29 Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
Ac 13:17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
Ac 17:21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing)

Think about this awhile.

 

... for the record: that would be my wife. She even has the shirt that says so - "JESUS LOVES YOU, but I'm His favorite."

 

Here is what YOU wrote:
"My doctrinal position is far superior to yours because I believe the words I read in scripture, and use reason and logic and prayer to understand them. I am not superior to anyone."
Brother, look inward. What you wrote is incredibly ironic and it shouts back at you. Are you listening?

 

The doctrines of grace, AKA (1) Total Spiritual Inability, (2) Unconditional Election, (3) Limited Atonement, Christ died only for the elect) and (4) Irresistible Grace, AKA the Gift of Faith, are precluded by the very passages cited in the OP.

1) James 2:5 teaches conditional election with God choosing those rich in faith and love God.
2) 1 Peter 1:1-2 is addressed to those who are born anew according to God's plan, formulated long before.
3) 1 Peter 2:9 teaches individuals are chosen after they have lived in darkness, not before creation.
4) 1 John 4:19 declares those born anew came to love God because they embraced the gospel demonstrating God first loved us because He died for us.
5) The New birth is a work of God alone, but He chooses for salvation those whose faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, He credits as righteousness, Romans 4:23-25.

Therefore, the lost have sufficient spiritual ability to believe in Christ, thus having faith which can be credited as righteousness. There were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election for salvation. Our faith does not necessarily merit, earn, or otherwise contribute to our salvation as it depends on the One who calls, Romans 9:16.

 

There is not a Calvinist alive today (IMO) who can properly understand the passages that I have been quoting and pasting and commenting on. Not even one. Your mind is blinded by your doctrine. It is not because you are not smart enough, because many of you are very intelligent. But you have given your mind away and are convinced of pure silliness that should be embarrassing when you advance it here on these forums. Look at this.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye (strangers) know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Now watch this. He is speaking about who is preordained before the foundation of the world.

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

It was Jesus Christ who was before appointed to be a Lamb to die for them.

So far we have been dealing with past tense verbs. Foreknowledge itself is in the past tense.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Foreknowledge is something he knew before. It is not an action. Election is an action. Election must come after foreknowledge because the action is something that he knew about before it actually took place. Now we know who these people are. They are those whom God had cursed back in the days of the prophet Hosea, They are those of Israel whom God had declared that they were no longer his people because of their awful propensity to sin and worship other gods. He ran them out of their land and they ceased being a nation and a people of God. His foreknowledge about a new birth for these people through a sacrificial Lamb was included in his curse. Read the prophesy in Hosea 1. He was going to make it possible for them to be individually born again into the family of God. This generation was not promised they would get their homeland back but they would have an inheritance in heaven.

So, God did not send prophets to these people, with the one exception of Jonah, whom Jesus said was a type of himself, but nevertheless the prophets spoke of the salvation through the Messiah and the new birth through his Spirit but they did it as ones looking through a glass darkly. See;

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them (the prophets) did signify, when it (the Spirit) testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (foreknowledge)
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Is the commentary by Peter beginning to make one understand what he means here;

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

All of this was planned by God, past tense, before the foundation of the world, but no one knew enough about it but the prophets were given information piecemeal and it was brought into full light when Jesus Christ was manifest among them and the cross and resurrection became the means and method of God's election. But only to those who would come to him by faith. Study the book of Acts. Paul's worse enemies were those from Asia.

Another important fact one needs to be aware of is what is revealed about "this generation." It was this generation of Jews that had the particular responsibility of recognizing and receiving their promised Messiah, and the fact they did not is the reason they were charged, at the end of the earthly ministry to them of Jesus Christ, of the unpardonable sin. The counterpart to this charge was the generation who refused to enter the promised land during the ministry of Moses and they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years until all those rebels were dead. It just happens to be 40 years between the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the end of Judah as a nation in 70 AD. This was the end of a generation of 70 years.

Ps 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Mt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

What was the purpose of God with these people? It was stated here; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: God intended them to be his trophy, a manifestation of his grace. A picture and example to the world of his wonderful love and forgiveness.

The generation of Jesus Christ was 70 years, Thirty years before his death and resurrection during which he was a prophet of God. Afterward he sat upon the throne of God in heaven as he entered his prophesied office as priest. The priest must be 30 years old. When he returns it will be in his office as King.

There is much in the NT about this generation to which Jesus came in person. It is mentioned in 30 verses in the gospels. Three verses in the Acts. Not at all in the 13 letters of Paul to the gentiles.(Why mention things of the OT about this generation to gentiles? These things were mysteries to them).

Two times in the Jewish Christian epistles and zero times in the Revelation.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (aion = age), neither in the world (age) to come.

Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Lu 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

One cannot say that God does not preview everything he has determined to do.

 

Look at the bold, then read the following comment of yours.

"My doctrinal position is far superior to yours because I believe the words I read in scripture, and use reason and logic and prayer to understand them. I am not superior to anyone."

Do you see the irony in what you are doing? Do you see the prideful superiority you are claiming? Honestly, you have lost all credibility with me after these latest dialogues. You have closed your ears to anything but your own voice.

Hyvää yötä

 

I do not believe I was personally elected to be saved before the foundation of the world. I do not believe I have ever been better in God's eyes than any other sinner. I believe the foundation of the Christian faith is the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the reconciliation of sinful men with a holy God and whosoever will come to God for forgiveness of their sins in his name will be accepted by God. It is how I am saved and if you are saved, it is how you were saved. There is no difference in sinners.

Do you believe that?

 

When I found Jesus He was holding on to me I was broken and couldn′t stand on my own two feet He said the word and broke my chains And I was free to breathe again My life was saved by the loving blood of Jesus

When I found Jesus He was standing over me
I was down and out and living on the street There were times I could've died But the Lord was by my side I didn′t know it then but I'd been saved by the blood of Jesus He took the weight of my shoulders He came and gave me rest He gave me peace from my troubles Oh Lord I have been blessed

When I found Jesus He was walking next to me On the lonely path of my man-made destiny He must've looked into my eyes Saw the tears And heard my cries For where I stood I was saved by the blood of Jesus Empty promises of the world had forsaken me Left me in the wilderness And it was Jesus who rescued me He called my name And I will never be the same For one touch from the king of kings Changed everything

When I found Jesus He was heavy on my heart I was lost for words and didn′t know where to start All I know is I believed And more than that I did receive For my sins where paid by the loving blood of Jesus By the blood of Jesus He took the weight of my shoulders He came and gave me rest He gave me peace from my troubles Oh Lord I have been blessed Oh Lord I have been blessed

 

I don't think that answered my question.

 

The cross was the culmination of the promise of a Redeemer. The resurrection showed it's completion and victory over the dragon (Satan).
We cannot redeem ourselves. Jesus must come and break the shackles that sin has placed upon us. We cannot choose to break those shackles. If we recognize our enslavement, our need for redemption, and our utter lack of hope, it is only because Jesus is already present and making us alive with Him. Our response to His gracious salvation is to believe that He has saved us.

Hyvää päivää, sir.

 

hyvää päivää - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

 

@JD731,
There is this promise of being chosen prior to our election per Ephesians 1:4, ". . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ."

 

Are you saying to be chosen is not to be elected in the context or to be elected is not to be chosen. Chosen to what and elected to what? Explain.