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Coal…. Where does it stand?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 22, 2023.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Nobody hated coal more than I… but it was my family’s profession. Each morning (roughly around 430 AM,) gramps would get in a carpool full of local miners and drive to whatever colliery was hiring miners to preform the work of men, digging out coal. They would leave in the early morning with lunch pails and thermoses and return covered in the black coal dust that would later kill them with black lung. Grandpa would go up the stairs to the 2nd floor tenement house and wash up in the big back sink they used to bathe me as in infant. Then we would sit for a family meal, with grandpa being at the head (a sign of respect for the breadwinner).

    Coal gave most of us in the family asthma… you could see it in the air, floating and falling on the roofs and windows. Working there was hard, men died from cave ins and explosions and other competitive miners looking for work … they throw rocks at one another and blew up each other’s homes & churches. A lot more nonsense happened but that’s the coal business in the day… so I have some real issues with the coal industry. Up until I realized that it fed and clothed my family. There are more coal reserves in the USA than any place on the planet. The USA could easily be fuel independent if only we took the billions of dollars we give away stupidly and invested in research for making coal clean… but no, instead let’s go solar, harness wind, drive EV’s … Dear God, what utter insanity, when your holding Aces throw them and loose the pot.

    It’s time we do the MAGA thing by concerning ourselves with our own trajectory. Investing money in our own future, develop our own well-being, giving our children & grandchildren a better life ( like grandpa did for us). Frankly I’m ashamed that our country is on the wrong trajectory… we need to grow up.
     
    #1 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 22, 2023
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    They’re eventually going to come around to logical solution, nuclear energy.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Oct 22, 2023
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Nuclear has its downsides also but some of my friends who are nuclear engineers have told me that the dangers have been mitigated. Now if there were enemies of the USA trying to attack us, wouldn’t reactor plants be a logical choice to target?
     
    #3 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    We need to use it all.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Oct 23, 2023
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It would as we'd lose power. But the danger wouldn't be like a nuclear explosion. The danger would be a risk of contamination in the immediate area.


    I don't like coal at all. The smell brings back memories being deployed in coal burning areas.
     
    #5 JonC, Oct 23, 2023
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Define immediate area. I live in a area with the highest population in the country. There would be no escape.

    Also Toyota is now experimenting with ammonia as an alternative fuel source for cars.
     
    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In the worst case scenario (sabotage at the reactor) up to The evacuation zone would be about 20 miles from the reactor. But the IAEA "cannot foresee a situation that would result in radiation-related health consequences to the public".

    There is a lot of concrete around our containment buildings and the actual rods are underground within these buildings.

    But evacuation would be necessary to keep possible exposure under 100 mrem annual exposure (less than what you'd get standing in Grand Central Station, NYC) and provide a buffer area.


    The main consequence of hitting our nuclear power plant would be loss of power. It takes a long time to get those things online.


    I'd worry more about tank farms with tanks in the water table.
     
    #7 JonC, Oct 23, 2023
  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Low yield enrichment (below the level for fission capable reactors) can produce RadioThermalGenerators (RTG) nuclear reactors that can be built as sealed electric generating modules the size of a boxcar or Semi-Trailer that can be buried underground and provide remote electric generation until they need recycling at a fast-breeder reactor to create new radioactive isotopes from old, spent isotopes.

    N.I.M.B.Y. is the greatest obstacle.
     
    #8 atpollard, Oct 23, 2023
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  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    For COAL, gasification is probably the best solution for extraction, transport and consumption to provide clean, non-renewable power.
     
    #9 atpollard, Oct 23, 2023
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Then you would have to educate allot of people who are my age and have seen what reactor destruction did to both Long Island and Chernobyl. Panic would be ugly with no evacuation capability. I remember the fear that was prevalent in LI. But I agree that we cannot keep on with this asinine plot to power the USA with wind & solar….at best they are both incomplete and flawed.
     
    #10 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...strip mining, no good way to do it without drastically disturbing the ecology surrounding it. I know.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Oct 23, 2023
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The Three Mile Island accident was a malfunctioning valve. There was a release, but no adverse effects (the release was not above background levels). The concern was not radiation but contamination (not photon radiation but particles).

    The fear was greater than the incident. This is because the movie, China Syndrome, which was released.... ironically.....shortly before the incident.


    Chernobyl was a disaster. The greatest impact reported, however, was psychological.

    But we are not taking about a Soviet style reactor (designed to produce power AND be used for weapon material). We are talking about US reactors. More importantly, we are not talking about a reactor incident but actually targeting a reactor.


    What would happen if a reactor was targeted? Most likely the reactor would be shut down before secondary attacks able to penetrate the housing (much less the reactor) occurred.

    A natural disaster would be worse than a military attack.


    The problem with a nuclear plant isn't an attack but how to store the waste.
     
    #12 JonC, Oct 23, 2023
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Then why hasn’t this been adopted as an alternative fuel source?
     
    #13 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes, very unsightly & destructive. What about automated technology underground drilling… much less manpower
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Still, what becomes of all the ground water that is going to be pumped out? Can that be recycled?
     
    #15 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Not “carbon neutral” and “renewable” [the current Green Technology Panacea]. Heating Coal Seams (especially those too deep to mine) to convert the coal to gas and then capturing the gas and converting it to a liquid like Propane is a technology that is already in use. It is just more expensive than strip mining coal and all the dollars and effort is going to new Solar, Wind and Wave technology research. In short, nobody cares about cleaner fossil fuels.
     
    #16 atpollard, Oct 23, 2023
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    How
    How much waste does it produce and where are they storing it now? What do countries such as France that are almost totally nuclear do?
     
    #17 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What happened to Trumps statement to provide beautiful clean coal? Maybe another change to leadership is in order.
     
    #18 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 23, 2023
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    At work (commercial site planning) we worked with a team of former NASA engineers (laid off with the cutbacks) that were attempting to commercialize a membrane they developed for long-term human Spaceflight. Sewage flows into one end and the Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules are absorbed by the chemical compound of the membrane. The pressure differential forces an equal number of hydrogen and oxygen molecules out the other side of the membrane as water … pure distilled water. It will convert any water source to fresh water: salt water, sewage, bacterial contaminated water, chemical contaminated water, etc. because it just absorbs hydrogen and oxygen molecules from the water and sweats water out the other side.

    So the technology exists to clean the water pumped out of the ground to drinking water quality.
     
    #19 atpollard, Oct 23, 2023
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Just a guess, but like NASA, the plan changes with each new administration. So Trump lost the 2020 election is what happened to “Beautiful Clean Coal”. Now we have Biden’s electric cars by 2025 initiative.
     
    #20 atpollard, Oct 23, 2023
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