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Authorship, Transcribers and added Subscriptions

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Dec 2, 2023.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans
    Romans 1:1, "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, . . ."

    Romans 16:22, " I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord."

    Subscription,

    ¶ Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians
    1 Corinthians 1:1-3, "
    Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, . . ."

    Subscription,
    ¶ The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians
    2 Corinthians 1:1, "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia: . . ."

    Subscription,
    ¶ The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Obviously those epistles were written by Paul (Paul says do in the introduction).

    If the topic is why Paul used another to write down his letters, I don't think this was uncommon. But elsewhere Paul doesn't use an amanuensis (Galatians, for example).

    Some have suggested this was because of declining eyesight. But it was common to use an amanuensis.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Galatians
    Galatians 1:1-3, "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; ) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: . . ."

    Galatians 6:11, "Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand."

    Subscription,
    ¶ Unto the Galatians written from Rome.
     
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Ross Purdy suggested that two other “examples of the [KJV] translators’ bias will be seen in the postscripts to two of Paul’s epistles” (I Will Have One Doctrine, p. 63). At the end of 2 Timothy in the 1611 edition of the KJV, the postscript referred to Timothy as “ordained the first Bishop of the Church of the Ephesians.” At the end of Titus in the 1611 KJV, the postscript referred to Titus as “ordained the first Bishop of the Church of the Cretians.” Bishop Thomas Bilson in his book defending Episcopal church government and apostolic succession maintained that Timothy and Titus were bishops (Perpetual Government, pp. 302-303, 341, 388). Bilson wrote: “If succession of Episcopal power came from the apostles to them [Timothy and Titus], and so to their successors, we shall soon conclude that bishops came from the apostles” (p. 302). Bilson asserted: “We infer this power must be perpetual in bishops, for they succeed Timothy in the church” (p. 391). Bilson contended: “St. Paul committed that power and care to Timothy and his successors” (p. 406). Bishop Overall’s Convocation Book claimed that “it is very apparent and cannot be denied, that in many Greek copies of the New Testament, Timothy and Titus are termed bishops in the directions or subscriptions of two epistles which St. Paul did write unto them (pp. 145-146). In this same book, KJV translator John Overall referred to Timothy and Titus as “two apostolical bishops newly designed unto their Episcopal functions” (p. 140).

    James Lillie maintained that the Church of England uses these postscripts “to prove her order of bishops” (Bishops, p. 3). Stephen Marshall, Edmund Calamy, Thomas Young, Matthew Newcomen, and William Spurstowe maintained that “our Episcopal men of late in newer impressions enlarged their phylacteries, in putting those postscripts in the same full character with that of the text, that the simple might believe they are canonical Scripture” (Smectymnuus, p. 45).

    Concerning these postscripts, Ross Purdy asserted: “The bias of the King James Version ’translators’ towards prelates (i.e., a hierarchy of ruling prelates/bishops is quite obvious” (I Will Have, p. 64). John Davenport asserted that the postscript to 2 Timothy and to Titus “are apocryphal” (Power, p. 80). William Perkins (1558-1602) noted that “most of the postscripts are uncertain, if not false, as of that after the second epistle to Timothy, in which Timothy is called an ‘elect bishop of Ephesus’” (Works of William Perkins, Vol. 4, p. 21). John Brown maintained: “These postscripts are of no weight; are of no divine authority; but were added, at least in their present form, ages after their [referring to Timothy and Titus] death, by some imposter” (Letters, p. 42). Thomas Powell observed: “The subscriptions at the end of the Epistles are of no authority; but only mere human tradition” (Essay on Apostolical Succession, p. 54).

    While the 1560 Geneva Bible also included a postscript to 2 Timothy, its rendering does not assert the same degree of Episcopal bias. The Geneva Bible postscript referred to “Timotheus the first bishop elected, of the Church of Ephesus.” Haak’s 1657 English translation of the 1637 Dutch Annotations had this note after the postscript at the end of 2 Timothy: “These subscriptions even as it is uncertain who set them down, so their truth is also uncertain.” At the end of 2 Timothy, Theodore Haak noted or translated: “(The Epistle) to Titus, the first elected overseer [Gr. EPISCOPON; that Titus was an evangelist, sent to and fro by the apostles to spread abroad the gospel, is indeed collected out of the Scriptures; but not that he was anywhere a Bishop, as they are at this day called amongst the Papists].”

    These misleading postscripts used to advocate Episcopal church government remain in some [perhaps all] KJV editions printed at Cambridge and Oxford in Great Britain, but they are not found in a number of KJV editions printed in America. Do KJV-only advocates believe those words of the postscripts as the KJV translators did and do they assert that these postscripts should be printed in the KJV editions that they recommend? Some KJV-only advocates recommend as the perfect standard Cambridge KJV editions that include these Episcopal postscripts.
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We have to remember that the Church of England, at the time they commissioned the KJV, was very much Roman Catholic in doctrine...kinda like a unruly sibling.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews was not obviously written by Paul. Question, is Hebrews 2:3-4, ". . . at the beginning began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?" Contrary to what Paul could have asked?
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not contrary to Paul .... But also not contrary to many others as far as we know.

    I like Agatha Christie novels.

    The Hunting Party reads like an Agatha Christie mystery. But there are differences from her previous writings and the language is not exactly the same.

    Therefore Agatha Christie wrote The Hunting Party and another dictated it.

    See what I mean?

    Lucy Foley wrote The Hunting Party. There was really no reason to think that Agatha Christie wrote it.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 2:3-4 has been, and still is the primary reason Paul's authorship is currently objected to, second to not said to be author in the text.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    But it shouldn't be. Those who heard the Apostles who sat under Christ were many more than Paul.

    In fact, that passage is one reason to question Paul as the writer. This would be the first time Paul described himself as learning of Christ from those who heard from Christ directly. In Paul's epistles he relies on his own apostleship as hearing directly from Christ Himself (as an Apostle out of time).
     
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