Irrational theology.

[37818]

A serious poster in another thread wrote:

. . . I tell you that Satan is presently bound for a season.

1 Peter 5:8-9, ". . . Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. . . ."

 

[taisto]

A serious poster in another thread wrote:


1 Peter 5:8-9, ". . . Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. . . ."

Is Satan able to do anything he wants to do, with no restrictions?

(Job 1:6-12)
One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them. “Where have you come from?” the Lord asked Satan. Satan answered the Lord, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.” Then the Lord asked Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil.” Satan replied to the Lord, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does. Look how rich he is! But reach out and take away everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face!” “All right, you may test him,” the Lord said to Satan. “Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically.” So Satan left the Lord’s presence.

(Luke 22:31-32)
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.”

Just because Satan prowls around, seeking to devour the faith of the saints, this does not mean he is unbound and able to do anything he pleases with Christians and with the entire earth.

Presently, God restricts Satan and has him bound from fully attacking the saints.

Would any of us want to face Satan without God's protection shielding us?

 

[taisto]

The irrational theology is one that thinks Satan is fully unleashed and doing anything he wishes against the saints and the world.

No. Satan cannot do as he wills. He is presently bound and kept on a leash.

 

[37818]

Presently, God restricts Satan and has him bound from fully attacking the saints.

Revelation 20:3, ". . . And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, . . . ."

Has not happened yet.

Revelation 20:1-7.

 

[Alan Gross]

Might as well see what Revelation 20 says that Satan was shut up and bound from doing; "that he should deceive the nations no more".

Yep. That's what it says.

Revelation 20:3, ". . . And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, . . . ."

 

[taisto]

Might as well see what Revelation 20 says that Satan was shut up and bound from doing; "that he should deceive the nations no more".

Yep. That's what it says.

So, is Satan deceiving the nations now?

(Revelation 20:7-9)
When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

The answer is, no. The nations are not all trying to wipe out Christianity and storm the Mount of Assembly (Har-meggedon).

Satan is presently bound and cannot deceive all the nations. The Church is expanding across the globe so that people from every nation, tribe, and tongue can come to saving faith.

 

[37818]

So, is Satan deceiving the nations now?

(Revelation 20:7-9)
When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

The answer is, no. The nations are not all trying to wipe out Christianity and storm the Mount of Assembly (Har-meggedon).

Satan is presently bound and cannot deceive all the nations. The Church is expanding across the globe so that people from every nation, tribe, and tongue can come to saving faith.

I am convinced that you believe this to be the case.
But it stands that Revelation 20:1-7 has not happened because the first resurrection has not happened yet per, ". . . But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. . . ."

 

[37818]

Comes to mind, 2 Timothy 2:16-18, ". . . But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. . . ."

 

[taisto]

I am convinced that you believe this to be the case.
But it stands that Revelation 20:1-7 has not happened because the first resurrection has not happened yet per, ". . . But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. . . ."

It has happened. Read the account of the dead coming forth at the cross.
After the Devil is unrestrained and the saints are being slaughtered in every area of the world, Jesus will return and resurrect the dead as well as bring the living to him while he destroys those with the beast mark, the whore, the beast, the false profit, and the devil himself. This is one final judgment as is taught throughout scripture.

I find it irrational that people create an entirely new timeline of events from 7 verses in one chapter of Revelation that is never corroborated anywhere else in the Bible. That lack of data anywhere else should be a huge red flag that pre-trib and literal 1000 year reign of Christ, followed by Christ leaving and the returning a third time is the irrational view. It is entirely made up in the fantasy minds of a couple catholic priests of the early 1800s.

 

[Silverhair]

It has happened. Read the account of the dead coming forth at the cross.
After the Devil is unrestrained and the saints are being slaughtered in every area of the world, Jesus will return and resurrect the dead as well as bring the living to him while he destroys those with the beast mark, the whore, the beast, the false profit, and the devil himself. This is one final judgment as is taught throughout scripture.

I find it irrational that people create an entirely new timeline of events from 7 verses in one chapter of Revelation that is never corroborated anywhere else in the Bible. That lack of data anywhere else should be a huge red flag that pre-trib and literal 1000 year reign of Christ, followed by Christ leaving and the returning a third time is the irrational view. It is entirely made up in the fantasy minds of a couple catholic priests of the early 1800s.

But many find your view as being irrational when you deny clear scripture and decide that it is all figurative. But the question becomes how do you decide what is figurative and what is not. When you start to deny scripture that the Holy Spirit inspires then it is not the bible you believe but yourself.

 

[37818]

It has happened. Read the account of the dead coming forth at the cross.

Wrong. Graves were opened.

". . . and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

It was not the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5-6.

 

[37818]

@taisto,
I do not think you came to your view in a vacuum.
My view, a post-trib view, came about in 1969.

 

[taisto]

Rather than go back and forth. I submit two lectures by Kim Riddelbarger on the Amillennial view of Revelation 20:1-7. Listen to them (you can speed them up to 2X by selecting the 3 vertical dots [kabob] if you wish. I believe you will find that the view is very rational.

Amillenialism 101 Part 1

Amillenialism 101 Part 2

Listen and see how all the symbolism is formed because it is directly tied to the symbolism of the Old Testament writers.

 

[taisto]

But many find your view as being irrational when you deny clear scripture and decide that it is all figurative. But the question becomes how do you decide what is figurative and what is not. When you start to deny scripture that the Holy Spirit inspires then it is not the bible you believe but yourself.

Listen to the two lectures by Riddlebarger and see how rational the view is.

 

[37818]

New Rather than go back and forth. I submit two lectures by Kim Riddelbarger on the Amillennial view of Revelation 20:1-7.

Big problem, I am a Permillenialist. I have been a Christian since 1962. The only change I bave made in my eschatology is from per-trib to post-trib in 1969. Studying Pre-Trib arguments.

Where is our common ground to go from Premillenial to Amillennial? Who is Kim Riddelbarger?

Listen to them (you can speed them up to 2X by selecting the 3 vertical dots [kabob] if you wish. I believe you will find that the view is very rational.

Amillenialism 101 Part 1

Amillenialism 101 Part 2

Listen and see how all the symbolism is formed because it is directly tied to the symbolism of the Old Testament writers.

I will check this out. Thank you.

 

[taisto]

Big problem, I am a Permillenialist. I have been a Christian since 1962. The only change I bave made in my eschatology is from per-trib to post-trib in 1969. Studying Pre-Trib arguments.

Where is our common ground to go from Premillenial to Amillennial? Who is Kim Riddelbarger?

I will check this out. Thank you.

Riddlebarger is a well known scholar. He has written "The Case for Amillenialism." He is well sourced and well read. As a scholar, he could argue your view for you, probably better than you can do. He is fair and doesn't denigrate other views. He is the best person I can recommend to show you the rational thought for an Amillennial view.

 

[taisto]

Riddlebarger is a well known scholar. He has written "The Case for Amillenialism." He is well sourced and well read. As a scholar, he could argue your view for you, probably better than you can do. He is fair and doesn't denigrate other views. He is the best person I can recommend to show you the rational thought for an Amillennial view.

Here is an article in Ligonier that points to the best Amillennial commentaries on Revelation. To understand the extent to which John quotes or alludes to the Old Testament you could look at Beale's commentary.

Top 5 Commentaries on the Book of Revelation

 

[kyredneck]

I believe you will find that the view is very rational.

No, try as hard as you will, they won't. Been on this site for >14 yrs, and rare indeed is the one that changes their mind.

 

[Alan Gross]

New thread; The 1,000 Years of Revelation 20. #1; The Binding of Satan. Visions are characterised by symbols.

 

[JonC]

Been thinking about the title of this thread.

You know, the rational consequence of stepping out of a boat in the middle of a sea is that you will sink. That is the logical conclusion.

The rational consequence of having a vat of water at a wedding is that it will stay water.

The rational consequence of placing your dead brother in a tomb is that after three days he will still remain dead.

The logical conclusion is that a small basket of fish and bread cannot feed a multitude.

Strange.....huh..