#2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

[Alan Gross]

The doctrine isn't even a little bit biblical nor is it even rational.
Paul tells us explicitly that there is ONE body - period.
Not one body per nation, not one body per city,
not one body per neighborhood.

Of highly pertinent, prominent, conspicuous, notable,
and salient statistical significance and importance is that,
where we find the expression "one body" mentioned in I Corinthians 12,
there are a total of thirteen times that the word "body"
is referring to a "body" of believers gathered together,
in that same chapter, of I Corinthians 12.

Each of those thirteen occurrences refers to a "body",
as being some form of a religious gathering, or congregation.

However, in one instance of its use, in I Corinthians 12,
there has been an alleged attempt to define "one body",
as being something other than a local "body" of believers
in a religious gathering and it is said that it is intended to indicate
some other form of religious congregation that one time.

Notwithstanding, in twelve of those thirteen times the word "body"
is used in I Corinthians 12, in context, it is agreed by all,
that the "body" being referred to is a "local religious gathering",
or a "local body" of believers, as we see here:

I Corinthians 12:12;
"For as the body is one, (one "local body" of believers)
and hath many members,
and all the members of that one body, (one "local body" of believers)
being many, are one body: (one "local body" of believers)
so also is Christ.

13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, (?)
whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

18 "But now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body, (a "local body" of believers)
as it hath pleased him.

19 "And if they were all one member,
where were the body? (a "local body" of believers)

20 "But now are they many members,
yet but one body. (one "local body" of believers)

22 "Nay, much more
those members of the body, (a "local body" of believers)
which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 "And those members of the body, (a "local body" of believers)
which we think to be less honorable,
upon these, we bestow more abundant honor;
and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 "For our comely parts have no need:
but God hath tempered the body together, (a "local body" of believers)
having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked:

25 "That there
should be no schism in the body; (a "local body" of believers)
but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it;
or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27 "Now ye are the body of Christ, (a "local body" of believers)
and members in particular."

con't

 

[Alan Gross]

The one exception we see, in I Corinthians 12:13,
of the word "body" is said to be something
other than a local "body" of believers in a religious gathering
and it is said that it is intended to indicate
some other form of religious congregation that one time.

13 "For by one Spirit
are we all baptized into one body,

whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Although, the verse before 12:13, in I Corinthians 12:12;
mentions that one "body"
"hath many members", (in one "local body" of believers)

and that of that one "body" (one "local body" of believers)

all of the members of that one "body"
are one "body" (one "local body" of believers)

as we see here:
12:12; "For as the body is one, (a "local body" of believers)
and hath many members,
and all the members of that one body, (a "local body" of believers)
being many, are one body: (a "local body" of believers)
so also is Christ.

it is believed that in the next verse, 12:13, "one body"
has a different meaning
than that of one "local body" of believers.

12:13 "For by one Spirit
are we all baptized into one body,

whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

And while vs 12:20
also mentions "one body" (as one "local body" of believers)
stating,"are they many members", in that one "body"

12:20; "But now are they many members,
yet but one body. (a "local body" of believers),

the argument is made that the "one body" mentioned in 12:13,
is something other than one local body, and that it refers to
something called, "The Body of Christ",

as if in its use of the word "body" in that one verse,
the Bible suddenly makes a drastic departure from the narrative,

where twelve other instances of the same word "body"
are used in context, in this same chapter
to mean, one "local body" of believers,

and where an entirely new concept and meaning
is spontaneously introduced, without precedence or warning
AND WHERE THE WORD "BODY" IS NOT EXPLAINED OR DEFINED
in that verse, or elsewhere in the Bible,

and where it must be presumed to be assumed
to mean what 'somebody' says it means(?)

The Bible has two specific answers to that argument,
beginning in the same context of this same chapter,
of I Corinthians 12, where, "the body of Christ",
is actually referred to, in vs 27:

27 "Now ye are the body of Christ, (a "local body" of believers)
and members in particular."

"The body of Christ" is there defined as consisting
of "members in particular", which refers
to the particular members
in what the Bible is calling, "the body of Christ".

Secondly, Ephesians 4:4 lowers a death nail
into any suggestion that the words "one body"
in I Corinthians 12:13 might have some other new meaning
describing an unheard-of new concept foreign to the New Testament,
by saying, in Ephesians 4:4a; "There is one body".

Ephesians 4:4a is where you go to prove the "one body"
in I Corinthians 12:13 again refers to one local body of believers,
for the thirteenth time, in that one chapter.

Given the prospect and stipulation that the Bible
restricts the existence of the "one body"
that we have seen in twelve other places in I Corinthians 12,
where it is clearly defined as being one local body of believers,

there can not be any allowance made
for the existence of a second "body" that is somehow different
than being a local body of believers.

Why? Because the word of God informs us that,
"There is one body", in Ephesians 4:4a, and since that "one body"
is one local body of believers, there can't be some other "body",
that can be said to exist, for there to then be "two bodies".

con't

 

[Alan Gross]

Interestingly enough, Ephesians 4:5c, also states
that the Bible restricts a distinctness to the word "baptism",
where it is confined and regulated
to include the existence of only "one baptism".

Ephesians 4:5; "One Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Given those two plain directives from the word of God
and understanding the prominence and importance of God
that He has given to the church Ordinance He Instituted,
by His Own Authority, as being water baptism,

the irresistible conclusion we must reach
for being The Divine Interpretation of I Corinthians 12:13:

12:13 "For by one Spirit
are we all baptized into one body,

is that it is to be explained;

"For by one Spirit
are we all (water) baptized into one (local) body (of believers),

(referring, of course, to these believers in Corinth,
having been water-baptized into being members
of the local body of Christ,
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2.

And, we see further, that it was God Who did that:
12:18; "But now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.


God chose these various Jews and Gentiles to become members,
of this local body of Christ,
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2,

as it says there, in vs 18, "now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him."


And just as we can see in the context of I Corinthians 12:3c&d,
where the Bible twice uses the words,
"by the Spirit of God" and "by the Holy Ghost",

when we see: "no man speaking by the Spirit of God
calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man
can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost",

it is in that exact same manner, the Holy Spirit is shown
in I Corinthians 12:13, accomplishing what pleased God the Father,

where: "For by one Spirit,
just as, "by the Spirit of God", or, "by the Holy Ghost" (as in 12:3c&d)
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),


which then is confirmed in vs 18, as we see God's process by which,
"now hath God set the members every one of them in the body",
(by water baptism) "as it hath pleased him",
into being members of this local body of Christ, (12:27)
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2,


"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

These "Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free"
were now baptized into the membership of the one
and the same local body of Christ together at Corinth

because, as we saw, "now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body", (by water baptism)
"as it hath pleased him",

when, "For by one Spirit",
just as when "by the Spirit of God",
or, "by the Holy Ghost" (as in 12:3c&d)
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),

there was not only the one Spirit, that "by one Spirit" the Bible says,
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),

to all be members together of this local body of Christ, (12:27)
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2,


"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
but they all, also, "whether we be Jews or Gentiles", etc.,

had been saved by that self-same Spirit of God, as it says,
"and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


So, not only has God saved both these "Jews" and "Gentiles",
who have both "been all made to drink into one Spirit",

but "by one Spirit", also, God has placed them both, "Jews" and "Gentiles", into membership
of the same local body, by water baptism,
to worship Him, together.

That is the message, from the Bible, of I Corinthians 12:13.

 

[JD731]

I

That is the message, from the Bible, of I Corinthians 12:13.

First Corinthians 12 is a rather interesting chapter if you ask me. The trinitarian expression of God is clearly seen in this chapter. For instance, notice the breakdown of the chapter and the delegated assignments to each member of the Godhead for the purpose in and of the body.

The chapter itself gives us this breakdown;

4 Now there are 1) diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. - This is the Holy Ghost (Spirit)

5 And there are 2) differences of administrations, but the same Lord.- This is Jesus Christ

6 And there are 3) diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. - This God the Father.
1) Gifts - 1-13
2) Administrations - 14-17
3) Operations - 18-31

Paul deals with the administrations of local assemblies under the heading of the responsibilities of the church officers, i.e. the pastors and deacons and the members in the pastoral epistles. Those are 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. He is not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians but the body itself, which encompasses every believer everywhere and at every time.This is about the church, which is the body of Christ, not about churches, which are local manifestations of the body..

But I hesitate to tell you any more because the history has been that people like you who have accustomed themselves to twisting the scriptures to fit their adopted theological systems while ignoring the definition of simple words and logical structure of the scriptures are much more guilty of blasheming the word of God by denying it's truth rather than adjusting your system.

Your whole system and your reasoning and logic is wrong. I have given this to help you see more clearly.

1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Always be aware of the trinity in the New Testament because he is always there. Knowing this will help you.

 

[CJP69]

All independent Baptist churches, such are those that are Landmarks,
practice a Congregational Form of Government,
which are Pure Democracies, under the Headship and Lordship of Jesus,
as their Sole Monarch.

Each member of the Congregation, in these assemblies,
which operates as a Pure Democracy and, as I had mentioned,
each member, including the Pastor, as a member, has one vote,
in all matters of decision-making undertaken as a church body.

In the event, a man of the church body acting as Moderator,
or a Deacon of the church body, calls the church to order,
motions may be entertained and must be allowed to be clearly heard.

Once, a motion is made, it may be seconded,
at which point a vote of the Congregation is taken.

As happens on occasion, if the Pastor is called down
and asked to not continue speaking, if they were in the Pulpit, for example,
and the church body is then convened to conduct the business of the church,
a motion may be made and seconded to vacate the Pulpit, immediately,
and a vote by the Congregation would follow.

Any existence of alleged instances similar to the above assertions, in red,
are shortsighted and improbable, practically, and could not be made by
"anyone who doesn't already agree with him and can think clearly."

So, much for thinking clearly.

Getting shed of an unruly leader takes little more than 60 seconds.

Not a concern.

Yes, yes. If the pastor is caught in adultery or embezzling or some other scandal or if the congregation turns out to just simply hate the guy for whatever reason, they have means to replace him. That has not ever been in dispute. It's not like I'm trying to say these churches are mini cults where the pastor reigns like a tyrannical monarch against the will of his congregation. No, on the contrary, the congregation is, through this ridiculous doctrine, being taught that it is a matter of religious piety (they wouldn't use those terms) to submit themselves to their church leadership in all areas of their life. After all, the pastor is the primary leader of the Body of Christ!

And as I've already said, some pastors (or elder boards) take more advantage of this "biblically sanctioned" authority over the "Eklesia" than others and I have no doubt that many of taken too much advantage and been removed. As I've also said, the position of authority is not the issue, its this silly doctrine that's the issue. It's ONLY effect is to cement the leadership's authority and the only reason to push the doctrine is to cement that authority beyond what could otherwise be justified. But it only works if the congregation buys it!, (which most of them do)! That's why it has to be a doctrine and not a mere policy. A mere policy might be ignored or changed. And it's why any opposition to it is framed as a "doctrine of demons". Such terminology isn't grounded is rational thought or sound biblical exegesis but in emotion. It's fear mongering and has it's motive is centered far away from anything intended to engender faith. Indeed, it's intent is to cause a congregant to shut his brain off and submit.

Lastly and on a separate note, since Mr. Gross brought it up, if the Independent Baptists are so focused on following scripture, please show me where scripture teaches, sanctions or even mentions any church being run as a "perfect democracy"? Every instance of democracy, even representative democracy, that I'm aware of in scripture, is met by God with deadly effect. God hates democracy! So what makes the Independent Baptists think its okay to vote on matters of church leadership, (not to mention matters of morality as the Southern Baptists do as a matter of course - it seems to be one of their favorite things to do!)

 

[CJP69]

I cannot read Alan anymore, too radical.

I cannot read Cathode.

Catholicism is the Babylonian religion referenced in Scripture, in my and many other’s opinion. And the RCC has killed millions of Christians over the centuries. I am not saying Catholics today would countenance such again. I am saying it is true historically and I will not read Catholicism/Babylonianism defended on a Baptist Board. He’s free to post, but I am free not to read it.

Well, it he could be worse! At least he presents something that is some sort of an attempt at making an actual argument and he doesn't just ignore what's actually been said against his position and respond to it by simply repeat his position as though nothing was said at all.

 

[CJP69]

{snip}

where: "For by one Spirit,
just as, "by the Spirit of God", or, "by the Holy Ghost" (as in 12:3c&d)
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),


which then is confirmed in vs 18, as we see God's process by which,
"now hath God set the members every one of them in the body",
(by water baptism) "as it hath pleased him",
into being members of this local body of Christ, (12:27)
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2,


"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

These "Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free"
were now baptized into the membership of the one
and the same local body of Christ together at Corinth

because, as we saw, "now hath God set the members
every one of them in the body", (by water baptism)
"as it hath pleased him",

when, "For by one Spirit",
just as when "by the Spirit of God",
or, "by the Holy Ghost" (as in 12:3c&d)
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),

there was not only the one Spirit, that "by one Spirit" the Bible says,
"are we all" (water) "baptized into one" (local) "body" (of believers),

to all be members together of this local body of Christ, (12:27)
"the church of God which is at Corinth", I Corinthians 1:2,

"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
but they all, also, "whether we be Jews or Gentiles", etc.,

had been saved by that self-same Spirit of God, as it says,
"and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


So, not only has God saved both these "Jews" and "Gentiles",
who have both "been all made to drink into one Spirit",

but "by one Spirit", also, God has placed them both, "Jews" and "Gentiles", into membership
of the same local body, by water baptism,
to worship Him, together.

That is the message, from the Bible, of I Corinthians 12:13.

Your posts wouldn't have to be so long if you actually just wrote your posts instead of copy/pasting someone else's work that has the margins set to narrow.

Be that as it may....

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Do you say that we become dead to the law through our local church?

If you do, it's heresy and I won't shy away from stating that to you or any leadership of any church or website.

We, as believers, are identified IN HIM and as such are His body of believers. There is one body of Christ because there is ONE CHRIST! I am not saved because I belong to a local church but because I have joined with Him who died on my behalf! For it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives His life through me (Galatians 2:20).

II Corinthians 5:21For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Colossians 2:10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

2 Thessalonians 1:12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

(There are several other such passages)
​

It is not my local church that I am identified in, it is not my local church that completes me nor in which I will be glorified nor is it my local church that lives through me! It is Christ, the Son of God, God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Creator of all things and the only begotten of the Father in whom I am identified and by Whom I am saved. There is precisely and only ONE of Him and therefore precisely and only ONE Body of Christ.

 

[MrW]

Your posts wouldn't have to be so long if you actually just wrote your posts instead of copy/pasting someone else's work that has the margins set to narrow.

Be that as it may....

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Do you say that we become dead to the law through our local church?

If you do, it's heresy and I won't shy away from stating that to you or any leadership of any church or website.

We, as believers, are identified IN HIM and as such are His body of believers. There is one body of Christ because there is ONE CHRIST! I am not saved because I belong to a local church but because I have joined with Him who died on my behalf! For it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives His life through me (Galatians 2:20).

II Corinthians 5:21For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Colossians 2:10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

2 Thessalonians 1:12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

(There are several other such passages)
​

It is not my local church that I am identified in, it is not my local church that completes me nor in which I will be glorified nor is it my local church that lives through me! It is Christ, the Son of God, God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Creator of all things and the only begotten of the Father in whom I am identified and by Whom I am saved. There is precisely and only ONE of Him and therefore precisely and only ONE Body of Christ.

*****

Correct. One Body, and the members of that one Body meet together in many different locations, local churches.
Good post.

 

[MrW]

Yes, yes. If the pastor is caught in adultery or embezzling or some other scandal or if the congregation turns out to just simply hate the guy for whatever reason, they have means to replace him. That has not ever been in dispute. It's not like I'm trying to say these churches are mini cults where the pastor reigns like a tyrannical monarch against the will of his congregation. No, on the contrary, the congregation is, through this ridiculous doctrine, being taught that it is a matter of religious piety (they wouldn't use those terms) to submit themselves to their church leadership in all areas of their life. After all, the pastor is the primary leader of the Body of Christ!

And as I've already said, some pastors (or elder boards) take more advantage of this "biblically sanctioned" authority over the "Eklesia" than others and I have no doubt that many of taken too much advantage and been removed. As I've also said, the position of authority is not the issue, its this silly doctrine that's the issue. It's ONLY effect is to cement the leadership's authority and the only reason to push the doctrine is to cement that authority beyond what could otherwise be justified. But it only works if the congregation buys it!, (which most of them do)! That's why it has to be a doctrine and not a mere policy. A mere policy might be ignored or changed. And it's why any opposition to it is framed as a "doctrine of demons". Such terminology isn't grounded is rational thought or sound biblical exegesis but in emotion. It's fear mongering and has it's motive is centered far away from anything intended to engender faith. Indeed, it's intent is to cause a congregant to shut his brain off and submit.

Lastly and on a separate note, since Mr. Gross brought it up, if the Independent Baptists are so focused on following scripture, please show me where scripture teaches, sanctions or even mentions any church being run as a "perfect democracy"? Every instance of democracy, even representative democracy, that I'm aware of in scripture, is met by God with deadly effect. God hates democracy! So what makes the Independent Baptists think its okay to vote on matters of church leadership, (not to mention matters of morality as the Southern Baptists do as a matter of course - it seems to be one of their favorite things to do!)

*****

The pastor is the same as everyone else. He just has a different job.
From Matthew 20:
...Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 and whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

From Matthew 23:
...be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

 

[CJP69]

*****

Correct. One Body, and the members of that one Body meet together in many different locations, local churches.
Good post.

What I genuinely do not understand is why anyone would disagree with this! Where is the pay off for this convoluted thought process that is required to arrive at this frankly weird, and thankfully rather rare, doctrine that turns the local church into separate and independent bodies of Christ. I mean, I see clearly the pay off the leadership of those local churches but what benefit is there to just the average Joe pew sitting member of these churches? I just don't get it!

 

[CJP69]

*****

The pastor is the same as everyone else. He just has a different job.
From Matthew 20:
...Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 and whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

From Matthew 23:
...be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Well, he occupies the office of elder and so has some authority....

I Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.​

...but not because he's superior or "different" in any fundamental way, of course.

Not even the Independent Baptists would disagree with that.

 

[Alan Gross]

It's called, "historical-grammatical interpretation of the bible"
as the process of determining what those words in I Corinthians 12
would have meant to those to whom it was written,

and exactly what they would have understood
as being what God was expressing to them,

then, we see:

That is the message, from the Bible, of I Corinthians 12:13.

You've probably heard of, "scripture vs scripture,
comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual", and "mixing it with faith",
and "line upon line, precept upon precept",

and to not "add to", or "take away" from the words in the Bible,
and that students of the Bible must have a "teachable Spirit",
and "be lead by the Spirit", etc., etc.

In fact, once you go with those types of things, you will find out:

the irresistible conclusion we must reach
for this being The Divine Interpretation of I Corinthians 12:13:

There isn't any other message in there than that, on God's green earth.

God's words that are embedded within the chapter, and verses,
and words, in context, are irrefutable. Enjoy them. Praise God for them.

They say what they mean and mean what they say!

Thank God that you no longer have to languish in the errors of man.

You have it right there in front of you, now.

Try not to squander it away, like a little child.

He is not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians but the body itself, which encompasses every believer everywhere and at every time.

"He is not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians".....

Haven't we talked before, where I had to admonish you to,
"Try to not brag on your ignorance"?

I think so. Maybe, more than once.

Does that sound familiar to you? It should.

Here is your;
"He's not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians",
passage of scripture;

Try to Follow along.

I Corinthians 1:1; "Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ
through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,
both theirs and ours:

3 "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father,
and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 "I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God
which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 "That in everything ye are enriched by him, in all utterance,
and in all knowledge;

6 "Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 "So that ye come behind in no gift;
waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 "Who shall also confirm you unto the end,
that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 "God is faithful, by whom ye were called
unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment......"

Shall I go on?

Now. I want you to try to remember something.

In all your subsequent pontifications, Pronouncements, degrees,
and condescending vitriolic GROSSIÈRETÉS, you needn't be so hasty,
to forget this tantamount demonstration of your penetrating sagacity,
when you said,
"He is not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians"...

Maybe, if you had said that Paul
was not dealing with the Loch Ness Monster, there, or something....(?)

But, Paul "is not dealing with the local assembly here in 1 Corinthians"...?

Remember....you learn more by listening than you do by talking....

He is dealing with the local assembly there in 1 Corinthians,
provided, that is, that you want to try to stay with me here,
within the Realm of Sanity.

In his dealing with the local assembly there in 1 Corinthians,
any figment of the imagination, as to the speculative conjecture
fabricating a concept completely foreign to the scriptures
and specifically foreign to I Corinthians 12, which you are referring to as,
"the body itself, which encompasses every believer everywhere
and at every time", is dispensed with, out of hand, forevermore.

There is nothing like that in I Corinthians, nor anywhere else in the Bible,
and this proper handling in dividing the word of truth you have seen,
demonstrates that SPIRITUAL REALITY, as plain as day
and the nose on your face.

I Corinthians is the prima facie evidence and witness that stands against and
impeaches any unsubstantiated theory,
of the existence of some other body, besides a local body of believers,
like those in Corinth, to whom it was written.

That is why I Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4:4, are in the Bible.

I Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4:4 act as bulwarks
against any heresies that might be devised involving any additional
phantom "body", of men's imaginations, which would contradict the plain revelation of scripture, "one body", so that we can know there isn't any second kind of "body", for anyone to not bother being distracted by and miss
the message of God's word, He has revealed, FOR OUR EDIFICATION.

WE CAN'T WORSHIP GOD WITH THE WORDS OF SATAN.

 

[Alan Gross]

This is about the church, which is the body of Christ, not about churches, which are local manifestations of the body..

Again, any misconception, or misinterpretation,
that could possibly lead anyone astray and into a heresy of there being
something like "the church, which is the body of Christ", as referring to,
"the body itself, which encompasses every believer everywhere
and at every time", is demonstrably and summarily dismantled,
by the simple reading and understanding of the plain words,
contained in this very scripture, in context,

and conversely, those are the same scriptures from which these heresies
are read into AND ADDED AD HOC into different verses, arbitrarily, at random, every which way, indiscriminately, randomly, willy-nilly,
and in an inexcusably haphazard and grossly irresponsible manner.

By "heresies", I mean, teachings that are advanced
without one word of scripture available in reality
that could recommend them as being anything real
for them to even be brought under any consideration, seriously or otherwise,

and that distracts and disparages the true meaning of the passage
and are that which all Historic Baptists do, or should, consider as a schism,

which must be treated as such, for the protection of the local church body,
by prohibiting any proponents of them from teaching, witnessing, preaching, etc., in a church capacity, and for them to then be considered
as candidates for Church Discipline, to then follow up
with a vote of the church body, for Doctrinal Heresy,
if they persist in causing a ruckus and sowing discord among the brethren, etc.

We stamp them out, buddy. As it should be. They are 100% lies.

They are that serious a bunch of lies, lies, lies.

We have no use for some "Universal Visible"
OR "Universal Invisible" anything,

(where, if nothing else, our fellow Christians are professing
that their religious institutions originated with Protestantism,
which, of course, originated with Catholicism, etc.),

nor do we have any use for the word, "Spirit",
being combined with the word, "baptism",
or trying to say that souls are "Spirit" + "baptized" "into Christ", etc.

We're not having it. Our church body was founded in 1786.

"She" has been through all of the years in the 1800s, as well as
having been through all of the years in the 1900s,
and then some, on both ends.

We have held to all of the same beliefs throughout
and are not newcomers, blown about by every new wave of false doctrines.

It takes the Devil A LONG TIME to pawn off a lot of his garbage and,
meanwhile, we're contending for the faith and see it coming,
to take a defensive stance against these recent inventions of men,
WITH THE BOOK, JUST LIKE JESUS DID AND TAUGHT US TO.
...

Oh, now here we go.

But I hesitate to tell you any more because the history has been that people like you who have accustomed themselves to twisting the scriptures to fit their adopted theological systems while ignoring the definition of simple words and logical structure of the scriptures are much more guilty of blasheming the word of God by denying it's truth rather than adjusting your system.

For your list of concerns below, from your post, above,
you might like to draw from these posts of mine, on I Corinthians 12,
to look for some examples of:

"twisting the scriptures
to fit their adopted theological systems",

"while ignoring the definition of simple words",

"and logical structure of the scriptures".

Not to look for examples of me doing those types of things, but you.

#41 "the body" in context, in I Corinthians 12; #2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

#42 "the body" in I Corinthians 12:13 = a local "body"
like the other twelve mentions of a "body", in I Corinthians 12;
#2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

#43 "For by one Spirit", "are we all" (water) "baptized (i.e., "one baptism")
into one" (local) "body" (of believers), the body of Christ, at Corinth;
#2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

Otherwise, what I generally tell folks about their gratuitous assertions
is that they are free to post me an example of where I have done
any of these types of things, just as are you, big guy.

"people like you" (WELL!)

"who have accustomed themselves to twisting the scriptures
to fit their adopted theological systems",

"while ignoring the definition of simple words",

"and logical structure of the scriptures",

"are much more guilty of blaspheming the word of God",

"by denying its truth",

"rather than adjusting your system".

And, hopefully, by "denying its truth", "rather than adjusting your system",
you're not intending for me to "adjust my system",
to say, "Paul,...
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,"
means, "He is not dealing with the local assembly there in 1 Corinthians"...

I Hope.

Please.

 

[Alan Gross]

Your whole system and your reasoning and logic is wrong.

Really. Well! It looks pretty straightforward to me.

No big, atrocious;
"twisting the scriptures
to fit my adopted theological system", like where you are
making up something where the "Spirit" is trying to say
that It is "baptizing" someone? For some reason?

The "Spirit of God" has never "baptized" anything,
in the entire history of the Bible record.

WHEN DID THE "Spirit of God" EVER START THAT KIND OF THING?

You want to come off with the "Spirit" trying to say that It is "baptizing" someone "into" a "Universal Invisible" thing,
neither of which the Bible mentions anywhere,
including I Corinthians 12?

Those are some awfully bold places to go,
where no man has gone before,
that is, those to whom the Bible meant more than beans to them,
that they thought they could just message around all over the place,
at their leisure.

Seems like you're "twisting the scriptures
to fit your adopted theological system", to me.

U?
...

"while ignoring the definition of simple words",

Your kidding!

You're actually going to go there?

Like the "simple" Unction from the "Spirit" of God?

like, believers being "baptized" in water?

like, the saved believers at Corinth
who were baptized in water, into the local church "body"?

I'm Not the one, "ignoring the definition of simple words".

Pretty normal stuff. Plain meanings.

Perfectly Healthy. Perfectly Normal.

The Plain meanings that we are supposed to all go with, first,
right off Jump Street, right?

What's wrong with that? I'd like to know.

We should know that we're definitely NOT INTENDED to dance around,
conjuring up newfangled concoctions, instead,
like some kind of Witch Doctor,

that is putting a spell on the world with a "salvation"
involving a "Spirit baptism", that makes an instillation
of "all saved people", and places them "into" membership,
as part of their "salvation experience", of a "Universal Invisible body",
somehow in this chapter of the Bible,

when in other places in the Bible,
as part of their "salvation experience", with their "salvation", again,
still involving a "Spirit baptism",

ONLY THIS TIME =

"The Holy Spirit" saves their soul by "baptizing"
AND IN ANOTHER ADDITIONAL WORD AND CONCEPT
"places them" to install of THEIR SOUL "INTO JESUS CHRIST".......


"and logical structure of the scriptures",
"and logical structure of the scriptures",
"and logical structure of the scriptures",

Dah, Dah, Dah.

Does all that false teaching sound like
"logical structures of the scriptures", to you?

It better not.

You'd have to be pretty messed up if it does.

I have given this to help you see more clearly.

Thank you, very much.

1 Cor
12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations,
but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Very good. Very nice.

They bode well.

All is well with my soul.

I like them.

They "fit like a hand in a glove."

That's what I want to see in a Bible teaching.

Always be aware of the trinity in the New Testament because he is always there. Knowing this will help you.

I happen to agree with you, one million, billion percentile!!!!

Here is my go-to guy, with myriad teachings showing the Triune Godhead.

They won't hurt anybody and should help everybody, immensely.

The Body of Doctrinal Divinity.

• Book I. Of God, His Word, Names, Nature, Perfections, and Persons

• Book II. Of the Acts and Works of God

• Book III. Of the External Works of God

• Book IV. Of the Acts of the Grace of God Towards and Upon His Elect in Time

• Book V. Of the Grace of Christ in His States of Humiliation and Exaltation,

• Book VI. Of the Blessings of Grace, and the Doctrines of It

• Book VII. Of the Final State of Men

The Body of Practical Divinity.

• Book I. On the Worship of God.

• Book II. On External Worship, as Public

• Book III. Of the Public Ordinances of Divine Worship

• Book IV. Of Private Worship, or Various Duties, Domestic, Civil, and Moral

• Book V. A Dissertation Concerning the Baptism of Jewish Proselytes

 

[Alan Gross]

Looks like it is said that there is somewhere:

someone else's work that has the margins set to narrow.

And, it is being said that:

instead of copy/pasting someone else's work

Then, it may result in:

Your posts wouldn't have to be so long

With this added tid bit thrown in that:

if you actually just wrote your posts

Interesting.

Every word of the following posts #41 thru #43 are original with me,
except for the scripture quotes and those indexed contents
of John Gill's Body of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity.

I just wrote from my heart what I understand the Bible to be teaching,
comparing scripture with scripture, in context. and hit the button.

See: I don't see how a soul can say they are saved without cutting and pasting all over creation.

#41 "the body" in context, in I Corinthians 12; #2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

#42 "the body" in I Corinthians 12:13 = a local "body"
like the other twelve mentions of a "body", in I Corinthians 12;
#2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

#43 "For by one Spirit", "are we all" (water) "baptized (i.e., "one baptism")
into one" (local) "body" (of believers), the body of Christ, at Corinth;
#2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

...

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ,

"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law"...

Romans 7:6; "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

I am represented as "dead to sin", and "dead with Christ", as in Romans 6:2;
"God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

and I am "dead to the law", as in Galatians 2:19,
"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God"
and, therefore, I cannot be under the law.

And the way and means by which I become dead to the law is,
by the body of Christ; meaning Jesus Christ Himself, as in Hebrews 10:10,
"By the which will we are sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all",

and in His human nature, Christ, as we see in, Hebrews 10:5,
"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me,"

and in the body of Jesus Christ, in which He lived a Perfect Life
and "through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all",
in Jesus' death He meet every thing that the law could require and demand.

Jesus gave His Holiness of nature,
which becomes the saints' sanctification in Christ;

and Jesus gave the obedience of His Life,
which is the righteousness given to the saints;

and in Jesus' sufferings in death,
Jesus suffered the penalty the law in His body,
and accomplished the full expiation of sin.

Jesus procured a complete pardon, for my sin,
in the sacrifice of His body and He obtained eternal redemption for me,
so that the law has nothing more to demand;

"The law's mouth is stopped", and it is no longer within the law's power to curse and damn any believers, because we are now dead to that power that the law had to curse us, just as it's power is now dead to us, "by the body of Christ,"
that He gave in our place, to fulfill the law.

The "body of Christ" spoken of in these passages is the actual physical body of Jesus Christ, in which He Loved a Perfect Life and have it as a sacrifice to obtain pardon of sin and eternal salvation for His children.

There is no relation or connection between the physical "body of Christ"
and any of His local churches, as local bodies of Christ, with regard to salvation, whatsoever.
...

Do you say that we become dead to the law through our local church?

Nope. Not if you didn't see me say anything like that.

I don't know where this kind of idea came from.
...

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

All of your scriptures concerning "in Him" have to do with the believer's experience of salvation and the various benefits of being "in Him", as saved children of God.
...

There is one body of Christ because there is ONE CHRIST!

We, as believers, are identified IN HIM and as such are His body of believers.

There is precisely and only ONE of Him and therefore precisely and only ONE Body of Christ.

These are all interesting philosophies, as far as some exercises of the mind goes, however, there are no Bible references or teachings that indicate that there is "one body of Christ", or "body of believers", in any respect, that could be associated with "all believers" somehow being said to be a part of anything like that.

There is, however, a perfectly Biblical teaching which is defined as containing "all saved souls alive on earth at any given time" and that is "The Kingdom of God".

All children of God are born again into The Kingdom of God.

The word. "Kingdom" carries with it the idea of defining an "empire", or "domain", or "dominion", a "dynasty", "province", "nation", or "territory", etc.

These definitions can easily encompass a realm worldwide, in which all of God's children reside.

Whereas, the word "body" never has the connotation of anything outside of a local contained unit and it never intends to, and especially not Biblically, and it is never used in the scriptures as articulating or referring to anything other than a compact, solid, packed together, bunched, conglomerated unit, etc.

A "body" is a "build", "figure", "form", "frame", "shape", "array", "batch", "bunch", "bundle", "clump", "cluster", "horde", "lot", "parcel", "unit", "set", or "crowd", etc., etc., and it never approaches to having a connotation or any meaning that is anywhere near to expressing an expansive all-encompassing global amassment of some substance, much less of all the individual people, within a large entire category of the overall population.

It is not intended to.

And, it is never used, or implied, or applied in any way Biblically that would require the meaning of the word "body" to undergo a mystically implemented process of a "meaning reversal", or some other equally absurd criteria.

 

[MrW]

Well, he occupies the office of elder and so has some authority....

I Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.​

...but not because he's superior or "different" in any fundamental way, of course.

Not even the Independent Baptists would disagree with that.

*****
We all need to be cautious about the sin of Nicolaitanism, which the Lord hates.

 

[MrW]

What I genuinely do not understand is why anyone would disagree with this! Where is the pay off for this convoluted thought process that is required to arrive at this frankly weird, and thankfully rather rare, doctrine that turns the local church into separate and independent bodies of Christ. I mean, I see clearly the pay off the leadership of those local churches but what benefit is there to just the average Joe pew sitting member of these churches? I just don't get it!

*****
I have absolutely no problem with the autonomy of each and every local congregation. That autonomy, however, does not mean there is more than one Body of Christ (the ORGANISM), just that there are many local places of worship (ORGANIZATIONS).

All members of the organizations are not members of the organism.

All member of the organism are not all in the same organization.

The Lord Jesus said, "You must be born again." If a person is not born again, he or she is not a Christian, although they may join every local church organization in town. The wheat and the tares grow together until the Lord's return.

 

[JD731]

The "Spirit of God" has never "baptized" anything,
in the entire history of the Bible record.

The Holy Spirit is the baptizer (he who immerses) each member into the body of Christ at the moment they believe. It is he that is life in the body because he is in the bodies of those believers whom he puts into Christ and the idea is that he controls them in the body functionally so the body has no schisms. But not only is he the baptizer in this sense but he is also the means by whom the Father in heaven baptizes those on earth. The Father has baptized the whole world and everyone in it with his Holy Ghost ,when he poured him out from heaven in such abundance that all who will believe him may receive him. He did this in two stages according to the history we have in the Acts. He baptized all of Israel in plain view on Pentecost after Jesus had risen from the dead and ascended back to heaven. Later he baptized the world.

Any time you see rain falling from heaven you are seeing this picture. The scriptures tells us it rains on the just and the unjust. The one thing every living creature must have to live is the water. A friend of mine went to the emergency room last night with chest pains and was told he was dehydrated. He did not have enough life giving water in him to be healthy. God is trying to explain himself with the physical to illustrate the spiritual among a bunch of hard heads that cannot see beyond their noses. My friend had plenty of water everywhere except in his body. It had just rained two inches the day before. My friend's problem was not that he did not have access to water but that he did not drink it into his body.

The rain has two purposes. It ponds up when it falls in abundance and one can get in the water and it will cleanse his physical body. This is the picture of baptism in water. The outward man is cleansed by the water. This pictures repentance because it is ultimately the decision of the dirty to avail himself of the cleansing stream that is abundant and free.. But he must drink of the water that God has provided. Dirty men can cleanse themselves on the outside but still remain dead on the inside because they do not drink the water God has provided. One must drink the water. He will need to drink only once. This water is eternal and it is life. This mean the water does not just give life to he who drinks, but the water 'IS" life in the drinker and he will never thirst again when he drinks that one time.

Man, this subject is so wonderful and there is so much more to say about it but I fear you will just blaspheme the truth and it will be worse for you than good.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The bride knows where the water is.

If the world with the Spirit of God in it could be observed with the physical eye, it would be so deep that it would be over the heads of every one and there would be no excuse for dying for lack of the eternal water because all one would need do is open their mouths and drink. The water is everywhere except in men who have not yet drank.

.Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

I have underlined the operative phrase. Just WOW. What a savior is Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen! He has made it possible for all of us to drink if we will.

 

[Alan Gross]

Independent Baptists think its okay to vote on matters of church leadership,

“There have been individuals and groups of believers
who have taught that the Scriptures give no warrant
for our present-day organized churches.

It is held that believers should get together, observe the Lord’s Supper,
study God’s Word, and cooperate in Christian service
without anything resembling a formal organization.

But that this is an extreme view of the matter is clear.

There are indications that very early in Jerusalem the Church
must have had at least a loose kind of organization
and there is conclusive evidence that soon thereafter local churches
were definitely organized.

That there must have been a simple organization even in the Church in
Jerusalem is evident from a number of things.

The believers adhered to a definite doctrinal standard
(Acts 2:42; cf. Eph. 2);

they met for spiritual fellowship (ibia);

they united in prayer (Acts 2:42; Mt. 18:19, 20);

they practiced baptism (Acts 2:41)

and observed the Lord’s Supper (Acts 2:42, 46);

they kept account of the membership (Acts 2:14, 41; 4:4);

they met for public worship (Acts 2:46);

and they provided material help for the needy of their number
(Acts 2:44, 45).

The Apostles were the ministers in this Church, but they soon added the seven men of Acts 6:1-7 to take care of the ministration to the poor.

On the day of Pentecost they were assembled in ‘the upper room’
(Acts 1:13; 2:1),

wherever that may have been; but more usually they seem to have met in some home of a Christian (Acts 2:46),

though for some services apparently they still visited the temple
(Acts 2:46; 3:1), as we have just seen.

All these factors indicate the beginnings of organization in the Jerusalem Church.

The Congregational,
Democratic Form of Church Government.

This type of government is clearly seen in Baptist, Congregational, Evangelical Free, Disciples of Christ, and Independent Bible churches.

Followers of this form believe no outside man
or group of men should exercise authority over a local assembly.

Therefore, the government should be
in the hands of the members themselves.

The pastor is considered to be the single elder in the church. He is called and
elected by the church congregation. Deacons are then chosen to assist him in
shepherding the flock.

To quote from Charles Ryrie:

“Arguments in favor of this form of government include the many
passages that speak of the responsibilities of the entire church
(1 Cor. 1:10; Phil. 1:26),

the passages which seem to commit the ordinances of the church
to the entire group, not just leaders
(Mt. 28:19, 20; 1 Cor. 11:2, 20),

the apparent involvement of the whole church in choosing leaders
(Acts 6:3, 5; 15:2, 30; 2 Cor. 8:19),

and the fact that the whole church was involved in exercising discipline
(Mt. 18:17; 1 Cor. 5; 2 Thess. 3:14ff.).

Under the congregational system, the pastor is usually considered to be the
single elder in the church. This is supported by the fact that the seven
churches of Revelation 2 and 3 apparently had a single leader (called the
‘angel’ but referring to a human leader), and by the fact that in 1 Timothy 3
the first part of the passage speaks of the bishop (elder) while the latter part
(vs. 8-13) mentions the deacons.

This would seem to indicate that there was only one elder in each church
although there were several deacons.” (A Survey of Bible Doctrine, p. 147)

 

[CJP69]

{snip everything that was ALMOST entirely unresponsive to the argument}

These are all interesting philosophies, as far as some exercises of the mind goes, however, there are no Bible references or teachings that indicate that there is "one body of Christ", or "body of believers", in any respect, that could be associated with "all believers" somehow being said to be a part of anything like that.

This is a textbook argument from silence.

There is, however, a perfectly Biblical teaching which is defined as containing "all saved souls alive on earth at any given time" and that is "The Kingdom of God".

All children of God are born again into The Kingdom of God.

The word. "Kingdom" carries with it the idea of defining an "empire", or "domain", or "dominion", a "dynasty", "province", "nation", or "territory", etc.

These definitions can easily encompass a realm worldwide, in which all of God's children reside.

This is not the first dispensational error that has been mentioned on this thread by any means but I've avoided addressing it because it inevitably introduces complexities to the discussion that will probably serve only to muddy the water but since the discussion is quite far along now and both sides have been presented without much in the way of rabbit trails, I'll go ahead and bring this issue up here because it actually does bring forward another major way to know that this "many/micro bodies of Christ" doctrine is definitely false.

Israel is the body of believers who belong to and have been promised a kingdom. We are not Jews and are not party to Israel's kingdom nor could any modern believer be, even if that believer happens to be ethnically Jewish because God's covenant of law with the nation of Israel (i.e. law and nations being in the purview of a kingdom) was cut off (see Romans 9 and Jeremiah 18) because of unbelief. God is no longer dealing with one particular nation and offers salvation not through Israel and submission to the law but by grace alone apart from the law, through faith alone apart from works, the near opposite of Israel's kingdom program.

Whereas, the word "body" never has the connotation of anything outside of a local contained unit and it never intends to, and especially not Biblically, and it is never used in the scriptures as articulating or referring to anything other than a compact, solid, packed together, bunched, conglomerated unit, etc.

Once again, an argument from silence. The bible never mentions the use of pews in a worship service nor even sitting down for that matter. Neither is there any instance in the bible of the word "baptist" being used as the name of any body of believers, local or otherwise. It is this sort of twisting of the meaning of common words that leads to so many doctrines of demons - right?

A "body" is a "build", "figure", "form", "frame", "shape", "array", "batch", "bunch", "bundle", "clump", "cluster", "horde", "lot", "parcel", "unit", "set", or "crowd", etc., etc., and it never approaches to having a connotation or any meaning that is anywhere near to expressing an expansive all-encompassing global amassment of some substance, much less of all the individual people, within a large entire category of the overall population.

It is not intended to.

Contradict yourself much?

You state in one sentence that "body" can refer to a "bunch", a "horde", a "lot", a "unit", a "set" or a "crowd" and then in the very next sentence you make the claim that the term couldn't fit with the collection of people who have trusted in Christ. Any one of those terms that you listed would describe of group of any size whatsoever - by definition!

And, it is never used, or implied, or applied in any way Biblically that would require the meaning of the word "body" to undergo a mystically implemented process of a "meaning reversal", or some other equally absurd criteria.

This is a straw-man argument. No one but you has made any such assertion. No one has ever suggested that any such "meaning reversal" has occurred nor is any such mean reversal required or even implied. And your argument that such a reversal has occurred is clearly contrived and unconvincing.