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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ? 10

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Jan 4, 2024.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The atonement is the work of Jesus Christ on the cross by which He finished the work of His perfect sinless, righteous life, made and end to the debt of our[The elect] sin, placated Gods thrice holy wrath against us, and gained for us all the benefits/blessings of salvation !
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction - 2 Peter 2:1

    "bought", Greek "agorázō, which is the same word used in 1 Cor 6:20; 7:23; Rev. 5:9; 14:3-4

    Jesus Christ clearly Died of all of these who will be in hell!
     
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  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Explain the verse
     
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  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, thats your responsibility, dont be irresponsible it doesnt say what you said, thats your false witnessing
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I take the Bible as it is, and not try to twist its meaning to suit any theology.

    2 Peter 2:1, with 3:9 in its context, is very clear, that Jesus Christ Died for ALL, including Judas and millions like him. That God does not desire that ANY sinner is lost eternally, but that ALL might get saved

    Any other "gospel", is not the True Gospel of the Bible!
     
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  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Well obviously the way you take the bible it leaves Christs Blood being shed for many people who nevertheless they shall perish in their sins anyway even after He redeemed them by His redeeming blood, too bade they didnt end up like these Rev 5:9-10

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests
    : and we shall reign on the earth.

    So your view if 2 Pet 2:1 gives us another gospel
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    if that is the case, then why are you afraid to sort me out on this?
     
  9. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right!
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Im not your flunky, its your responsibility to study your point, not mine. I will only say that your view is a discredit to the saving death of Christ and I have laboured in this thread to show it, I did the work myself, through Grace.

    Now I dont see anything about them in 2 Pet 2:1 being bought by the blood of Christ.
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Now if you take that posters view, you take the same Christ denying view as his, not good.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    It is the BIBLES teaching!
     
  13. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 3:9 refers to the mockers and scoffers in this chapter, and those in 2:1, ALL for whom Jesus Died, and wants to come to salvation
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You deny the redeeming death of Christ, thats not the bible view, His Death redeems unto God Rev 5:9-10

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    That scripture is limited to Gods Elect, and they will repent, for Christ has redeemed them by His Precious Blood 1 Pet 1:18-19

    18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    1 Timothy 4:10

    “For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of the entire human race, especially of those who believe”

    παντων ανθρωπων, here is the equivalent of “the entire human race”. This is also made very clear from what Paul says next, “μαλιστα πιστων”, which is, “most of all believers”. It is also clear here, that “παντων ανθρωπων” cannot be limited to “the elect” only, or those who are “saved”, as this is what “μαλιστα πιστων” refers to. Some have sought to weaken the reference to the Salvation of the entire human race, buy suggesting that “σωτήρ” here is not translated by the English “Saviour”, but, rather, “Preserver”. This noun is used 24 times in the New Testament, and in every instance Bible Versions like the KJV, have always used “Saviour”. So, why would its meaning change only at this place? No doubt because of theological reasons, as this verse is yet another, like John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 3:9, that very clearly teach that The Lord Jesus Christ IS the Saviour, not only for “the elect”, as some would have us believe, but, for every single human being that ever has and will exist. This is the plain, Biblical meaning of these, and many other verses, which is what the Holy Spirit intends that we accept, but there are some who will still argue with the Teachings of the Holy Bible!

    In Galatians 6:10, Paul tells us, “So then, as we have opportunity, let us work that which is good toward all men (παντας), and especially toward them that are of the household of the faith”. Note the contrast here. “all men…especially”. Again, very clear, that “all men” means “the entire human race”, and “the household of the faith”, refers to all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, the saved.

    While Jesus Christ died for and is the Saviour of the entire human race, it is evident, that only those who will “repent of their sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ” (Mark 1:15; Luke 13:1-5, 24:47; Acts 2:37-38; 3:19, etc), will be saved. This is what Paul tells us in Romans 3:23-26:

    “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”

    “put forward”, is in the Greek, “προτίθημι”, which can be translated, “offered”, where Jesus Christ is “offered” as the sin-offering (ιλαστηριον) for the sins of every human being. However, as we can see from verse 26, only those who have faith in Jesus Christ, as their personal Saviour and Lord, and actually “Justified” with the Lord, and become His children. This is the Gospel of the Holy Bible.

    The theory of a limit on the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ, as being only for a select few, is again shown as contrary to what the Word of God actually teaches.
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    exactly WHAT is YOUR problem???

    WHY do you HATE SO MUCH, the very people that GOD SO LOVES, as Jesus Himself says in John 3:16!

    the teaching of "election to salvation" is one of PRIDE and HATE, it is the "elect" sneering at the "non-elect", and saying to them, I am going to heaven where I belong; and you to hell, where you belong!!!

    It is no wonder that the so called Calvinistic/Reformed churches are on the DECLINE world-wide, because they have a gospel of HATE !

    EVERY Bible verse that is AGAINST the HERESY of limited atonement, is TWISTED by these groups!

    MANY of the so called "non elect", have MORE LOVE than you guys will ever!
     
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  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You have the problem:

    You deny the redeeming death of Christ, thats not the bible view, His Death redeems unto God Rev 5:9-10

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This is obviously wrong!

    Christ clearly died for all those that receive the reconciliation He provides. But does this truth require that He did not die as a ransom for all or that He did not become the propitiation or means of reconciliation for the whole world (all of humanity?)
     
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