Churches double standards

[JonC]

I used to be good friends with a very liberal pastor. He was liberal on doctrine, but very right wing on politics. He once said "I preach on sins that I will never commit.". I think that is true with many pastors. I have never heard an obese pastor preach on gluttony. I have never heard a pastor who drinks, preach on alcoholism. I think many pastors don't want to preach on sins in the church because they do not want to deal with the fallout of making church members mad.

Yep. Churches absolutely love "Hell fire and brimstone" sermons because that is where other people end up.

Preachers that preach to the congregation rather than the choir often find themselves looking for new congregations.

But that is what we need. We need pastors who will pastor us rather than try to pastor a dying world. Preach on my sins. Convict me that I may repent and grow closer to Christ in my daily life.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yep. Churches absolutely love "Hell fire and brimstone" sermons because that is where other people end up.

Preachers that preach to the congregation rather than the choir often find themselves looking for new congregations.

But that is what we need. We need pastors who will pastor us rather than try to pastor a dying world. Preach on my sins. Convict me that I may repent and grow closer to Christ in my daily life.

Ahhh, a George Whitfield sentiment!

 

[CJP69]

Of course you are. And I am ok with you being wrong (like when you said that nobody until Augustine and Calvin questioned a Pauline authorship of Hebrews).

But that does not change the fact that the greater danger, insofar as sins go, to a church are the sins that are accepted by the church.

Why is pornography a greater danger than churches, insofar as sins go, than murder? Because murder is not a problem (normally) within a church. Same with homosexuality.


I defend my position - that sins within a congregation is the greater danger - by the fact that we are called to be a holy people, to abstain from sin, and to expell the wicked. Sins within a congregation are more dangerous to a church than sins that do not exist in the church.

Defend your position that homosexuality is a greater danger to a church than sins that are accepted by a congregation.

Then we can weigh arguments.

I agree with Jon here.

The friend of my enemy is my enemy and when good people do evil things, Satan gets to take the day off.

That's just common sense.

 

[JonC]

"Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one--the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts". (Lewis, Screwtape Letters).

I believe the above quote is true.

The greatest danger to a congregation, in terms of sin, are those gradual, gentle sins often ignored.

 

[CJP69]

It’s more complex than that. His partner is the one unsure of marriage, she comes from a broken home for starters. Allot more crap like that. My concerns are more directed on the two kids and what kind of example these two are setting.

Forgive my directness here. I don't know you or your family but speaking in general terms, if a woman is unwilling to marry and submit herself to a godly husband, she is unfit to be a wife or a mother, regardless of the reasons why.

I understand that there are consequences to the actions of others that people deal with well into their adult years and perhaps it is wise to hold off on marriage until certain things are dealt with and wounds are healed. Of course, that ship has sailed in your circumstance and so the question of how to deal with it is, as you say, more complex.

I'll add you and your family to my prayer list.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Forgive my directness here. I don't know you or your family but speaking in general terms, if a woman is unwilling to marry and submit herself to a godly husband, she is unfit to be a wife or a mother, regardless of the reasons why.

I understand that there are consequences to the actions of others that people deal with well into their adult years and perhaps it is wise to hold off on marriage until certain things are dealt with and wounds are healed. Of course, that ship has sailed in your circumstance and so the question of how to deal with it is, as you say, more complex.

I'll add you and your family to my prayer list.

Thanks… my son is a nice guy and a few years ago asked this woman to marry him, ring and all. When they decided to move from Jersey to Florida for work it was viewed as a career advancement for him. In time, there was no wedding but there were 2 babies in quick succession. I later found out that she is a manic depressive so my son is taking it slow so as to not put her in a depression state. I really think she convinced my son to move to escape pressures she is feeling back home … both her mom and my wife each have stage 4 breast cancer that ways heavily on both. Of course, I’m not cracked up about their escaping to Florida considering both situations but they are adults… I’m just his father and he knows I hold a bit of a grudge… we aren’t young and we could have used the help. Hopefully God will hear our prayer so both a marriage and family unity can happen.

 

[CJP69]

Thanks… my son is a nice guy and a few years ago asked this woman to marry him, ring and all. When they decided to move from Jersey to Florida for work it was viewed as a career advancement for him. In time, there was no wedding but there were 2 babies in quick succession. I later found out that she is a manic depressive so my son is taking it slow so as to not put her in a depression state. I really think she convinced my son to move to escape pressures she is feeling back home … both her mom and my wife each have stage 4 breast cancer that ways heavily on both. Of course, I’m not cracked up about their escaping to Florida considering both situations but they are adults… I’m just his father and he knows I hold a bit of a grudge… we aren’t young and we could have used the help. Hopefully God will hear our prayer so both a marriage and family unity can happen.

Well, let me just say that you are dealing with issues that would crush me.

Also, there is the fact that God is not concerned with American jurisprudence and so we ought not get too hung up on a legal proceeding. Not that legal marriage is a totally trivial matter but merely that we need to make sure we don't pick the wrong hill to die on.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, let me just say that you are dealing with issues that would crush me.

Also, there is the fact that God is not concerned with American jurisprudence and so we ought not get too hung up on a legal proceeding. Not that legal marriage is a totally trivial matter but merely that we need to make sure we don't pick the wrong hill to die on.

Yea I understand. However he is now making overtures to starting his own business and so I told him that he would need all hands on deck to pull it off, that he could not must not neglect the two babies for they shouldn’t be raised with an absentee father. I pointed out to him that my father died young from a heart attack due to allot of stress and that could happen again. He agreed so I told him that my wife and I would consider moving down to Florida to help with the kids if he & his partner would go for it… so we will see what happens. Told ya that this is complicated!

 

[Van]

Being overweight, I preach gluttony is a minor sin, but feeling superior because you were genetic predisposed to a slim figure is right next to a mortal sin!

 

[Reynolds]

Being overweight, I preach gluttony is a minor sin, but feeling superior because you were genetic predisposed to a slim figure is right next to a mortal sin!

So, now we have "minor sins"?
Regardless of genetics, fat can't be put in your body without excess caloric intake.

 

[kyredneck]

So, now we have "minor sins"?

...well...think about that:

11 Jesus answered him, Thou wouldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath greater sin. Jn 19

 

[kyredneck]

"Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one--the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts". (Lewis, Screwtape Letters).

I believe the above quote is true.

Do you believe that His saints can lose their deliverance and spend eternity in torment?

 

[Reynolds]

...well...think about that:

11 Jesus answered him, Thou wouldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath greater sin. Jn 19

Didn't say we didn't have degrees, but no sin is minor.

 

[kyredneck]

Didn't say we didn't have degrees, but no sin is minor.

Do you believe you're [Reynolds] included in Romans 4:8?

 

[kyredneck]

Do you believe that His saints can lose their deliverance and spend eternity in torment?

@JonC ??? Is this a hard question for a Baptist?

 

[JonC]

@JonC ??? Is this a hard question for a Baptist?

Not for this Baptist .

 

[kyredneck]

Do you believe that His saints can lose their deliverance and spend eternity in torment?

@JonC ??? Is this a hard question for a Baptist?

Not for this Baptist .

Yes or no?

 

[Reynolds]

Do you believe you're [Reynolds] included in Romans 4:8?

Yes. Systematic theology tells you that you can't take that verse in a vacuum.Paul, at inspiration of Holy Spirit, commanded Church discipline.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not for this Baptist .

That’s throwing shade… what type of Baptist? We already know it’s not a Calvinist style.

 

[kyredneck]

Systematic theology tells you that you can't take that verse in a vacuum.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4

Seems to 'stand alone' fine to me!

Kinda like the other beatitudes - Matthew 5:3-11