Faith is the result of Election !

[Silverhair]

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2Jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Mt 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Mr 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
Lu 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Ac 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Ro 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Tit 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

I confess that my doctrine is so radically different than the Reformed in all things pertaining to the doctrine of man, salvation, God, the atonement, Christ, faith, reconciliation, determinism, sovereignty, the Holy Ghost and almost everything else in the scriptures, that if they are correct on these doctrines then I am in big trouble. We do not even agree concerning the scriptures themselves. We sure do not agree on the meaning of words and context and the power of the words. But, I am not wrong about these things. Praise God!

I would not go so far as you have in your condemnation of the Calvinist view. While I do not agree with a number of their views I would still call them my Christian brother or sister.

 

[tyndale1946]

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Faith isnt the cause of election but the effect, it comes with having been chosen from the beginning [of time] to Salvation, which Salvation consiteth in Sanctification of the Spirit, which is regeneration, and belief of the Truth which is Faith.

But it began with Election.

I disagree Faith is the cause of Election because Faith is trust, within the Godhead and scripture say it is God the Father, who trusted God his Son and gave those to be saved eternally to his Son Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." It was God who first trusted in Christ. This trust in Christ was that Christ would fulfill the covenant work in the covenant of redemption. God was confident that Christ would fulfill this work. Our obtaining this eternal inheritance is to the praise of God's glory. It has to be God's glory, because he is the one who is responsible for us having this inheritance and we did nothing to earn this inheritance... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Faith isnt the cause of election but the effect, it comes with having been chosen from the beginning [of time] to Salvation, which Salvation consiteth in Sanctification of the Spirit, which is regeneration, and belief of the Truth which is Faith.

But it began with Election.

It’s divine grace and it’s deliverance from sin… Freedom!

 

[Brightfame52]

So you fall back too the normal response of those that have no ground to stand on. Blame the other person.

@Brightfame52 if you had any real scripture that clearly in context supported your view then you would provide it. But since you do not you wave your hands and blame the other person for not agreeing with your errant text.

Are you not the one that has made, what, 10 threads on the atonement and you can not provide any clear scripture in support of your view. So what you made were just multiple threads of blow and bluster.

Come on BF, support your view with clear contextual scripture if you can. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.

Another scripture to them who have eyes to see, that Faith is the result, effect of election is Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Were ordained here speaks to predestination and election and to them they believed the Gospel, no doubt the Spirit had done His Sanctifying work in them previously.

 

[Brightfame52]

@tyndale1946

I disagree Faith is the cause of Election

Thats fine, you can disagree

 

[Brightfame52]

Another portion of scripture indicative of election which effects Faith in Christ is Jesus own words Himself,

Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus is indicating that the Father has given Him certain people [the elect] who will without question come to Him no doubt in lively Faith, and He will preserve them unto eternal Salvation.

These whom God gave Him are the Sheep for whom He died Jn 10:11,15 and they shall never perish,

This started with Election before the foundation !

 

[Silverhair]

Another scripture to them who have eyes to see, that Faith is the result, effect of election is Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Were ordained here speaks to predestination and election and to them they believed the Gospel, no doubt the Spirit had done His Sanctifying work in them previously.

BF you treat Act_13:48 as if it contains the phrase by God when it does not. You interpret it irrespective of Act_13:46 which sets the contextual tone.

The gentiles had heard Paul's gospel message, those that accepted it and trusted in the one spoken of took that direction for eternal life, and believed.

The meaning of this word {τεταγμένοι G5021} must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: {Act_13:46} the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, {Act_13:48} believed. In both cases it is the person, Jew or Gentile, that made the choice.

Context BF context, you keep pulling verses out of their context and this causes you to come to a wrong conclusion.

 

[Silverhair]

Another portion of scripture indicative of election which effects Faith in Christ is Jesus own words Himself,

Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus is indicating that the Father has given Him certain people [the elect] who will without question come to Him no doubt in lively Faith, and He will preserve them unto eternal Salvation.

These whom God gave Him are the Sheep for whom He died Jn 10:11,15 and they shall never perish,

This started with Election before the foundation !

Again BF you overlook context.The qualifying factor of Joh_6:37 is found in Joh_6:36, namely, belief. Point of fact we are told this is the work that God requires of us. Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

The Father gives to Christ, the Elect One, those that by His grace He has saved due to their faith. Eph 2:8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith…” One is only elect when they are in the Son and they are only in the Son through faith.

BF you keep referring to random verses to support your view, why do you continue to ignore context?
Yes Christ is the Good Shepherd who laid down His life for His sheep, we all understand that. But you want to limit those sheep to a pre-selected few which the biblical text does not do. Joh 10:9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

What Election before the foundation? That is just a calvinist misreading of the text of Eph 1:4. Calvinists read into the text what they need to find. God foreknowing who will trust in the Son is not God causing them to trust in the Son.

Do you not trust scripture when it tells us anyone can be saved? Rom 1:16 ".. the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

While it is true that God foreknows all that will come to faith, it is also true they must choose to be saved by a definite act of the will.

Question for you BF:
Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

 

[Van]

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Faith isnt the cause of election but the effect, it comes with having been chosen from the beginning [of time] to Salvation, which Salvation consiteth in Sanctification of the Spirit, which is regeneration, and belief of the Truth which is Faith.

But it began with Election.

This Calvinist view is wrong.

1) To what does "from the beginning" refer? Calvinist claim it refers to our individual election before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4. However since no one was transferred into Christ spiritually before He physically died on the cross, this view is bogus.

2) We are individually chosen "through" or by means of " faith in the truth, so during our physical lifetime after we trust fully in Christ.

3) Through sanctification refers to being set apart in Christ.

4) "he called (invited) you through (or by means of) His gospel. Thus again requiring our hearing the gospel during our lifetime.

5) Faith is not the cause of our election, but rather God crediting our faith as righteousness that is the cause of our election.

 

[Silverhair]

This Calvinist view is wrong.

1) To what does "from the beginning" refer? Calvinist claim it refers to our individual election before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4. However since no one was transferred into Christ spiritually before He physically died on the cross, this view is bogus.

2) We are individually chosen "through" or by means of " faith in the truth, so during our physical lifetime after we trust fully in Christ.

3) Through sanctification refers to being set apart in Christ.

4) "he called (invited) you through (or by means of) His gospel. Thus again requiring our hearing the gospel during our lifetime.

5) Faith is not the cause of our election, but rather God crediting our faith as righteousness that is the cause of our election.

@Van your # 5 comment really makes no sense. Faith is not the cause of our election but Faith is the cause of our election. What does, Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith..." say?
Yes I know that God saves us but He saves/elects those that have faith in His risen Son.

God's response to our faith is election, so faith is the cause of our election. No faith, No election.

 

[robycop3]

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Faith isnt the cause of election but the effect, it comes with having been chosen from the beginning [of time] to Salvation, which Salvation consiteth in Sanctification of the Spirit, which is regeneration, and belief of the Truth which is Faith.

But it began with Election.

Nupe! There are many "whoevers" in Scripture, such as John 3:16.. They all read "whoever", NOT "whoever if elect" ! Calvinism is wrong.

 

[robycop3]

Matthew 10:32

John 3:15-16“Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved."

Acts 10:43 "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Romans 10:13 "For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

NOT ONE "WHOEVER IF ELECT" ! And who does "whoever" exclude ?????????????????????????

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you treat Act_13:48 as if it contains the phrase by God when it does not. You interpret it irrespective of Act_13:46 which sets the contextual tone.

The gentiles had heard Paul's gospel message, those that accepted it and trusted in the one spoken of took that direction for eternal life, and believed.

The meaning of this word {τεταγμένοι G5021} must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: {Act_13:46} the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, {Act_13:48} believed. In both cases it is the person, Jew or Gentile, that made the choice.

Context BF context, you keep pulling verses out of their context and this causes you to come to a wrong conclusion.

Acts 13:48 shows us election preceded and results in Faith

 

[Brightfame52]

Again BF you overlook context.The qualifying factor of Joh_6:37 is found in Joh_6:36, namely, belief. Point of fact we are told this is the work that God requires of us. Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

The Father gives to Christ, the Elect One, those that by His grace He has saved due to their faith. Eph 2:8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith…” One is only elect when they are in the Son and they are only in the Son through faith.

BF you keep referring to random verses to support your view, why do you continue to ignore context?
Yes Christ is the Good Shepherd who laid down His life for His sheep, we all understand that. But you want to limit those sheep to a pre-selected few which the biblical text does not do. Joh 10:9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

What Election before the foundation? That is just a calvinist misreading of the text of Eph 1:4. Calvinists read into the text what they need to find. God foreknowing who will trust in the Son is not God causing them to trust in the Son.

Do you not trust scripture when it tells us anyone can be saved? Rom 1:16 ".. the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

While it is true that God foreknows all that will come to faith, it is also true they must choose to be saved by a definite act of the will.

Question for you BF:
Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

Jesus taught election unto faith, those are His words. Are you ashamed of them ? Mark 8:38

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

[Brightfame52]

This Calvinist view is wrong.

1) To what does "from the beginning" refer? Calvinist claim it refers to our individual election before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4. However since no one was transferred into Christ spiritually before He physically died on the cross, this view is bogus.

2) We are individually chosen "through" or by means of " faith in the truth, so during our physical lifetime after we trust fully in Christ.

3) Through sanctification refers to being set apart in Christ.

4) "he called (invited) you through (or by means of) His gospel. Thus again requiring our hearing the gospel during our lifetime.

5) Faith is not the cause of our election, but rather God crediting our faith as righteousness that is the cause of our election.

I laid it out for you but cant make you believe the testimony of God

 

[Brightfame52]

Nupe! There are many "whoevers" in Scripture, such as John 3:16.. They all read "whoever", NOT "whoever if elect" ! Calvinism is wrong.

Oh yes, Faith comes grounded in election

 

[Van]

@Van your # 5 comment really makes no sense. Faith is not the cause of our election but Faith is the cause of our election. What does, Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith..." say?
Yes I know that God saves us but He saves/elects those that have faith in His risen Son.

God's response to our faith is election, so faith is the cause of our election. No faith, No election.

Who decides whether our faith will result in election, the person professing faith or God? What does God crediting our faith as righteousness accomplish, if He saves those with unrighteous faith?

 

[Van]

I laid it out for you but cant make you believe the testimony of God

Here is how God's testimony laid out in the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:13

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.​

1) To what does "from the beginning" refer? Calvinist claim it refers to our individual election before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4. However since no one was transferred into Christ spiritually before He physically died on the cross, this view is bogus. Note we all lived without mercy so we were not elected during the first part of our physical life.

2) We are individually chosen "through" or by means of " faith in the truth, so during our physical lifetime after we trust fully in Christ.

3) Through sanctification refers to being set apart in Christ. Thus our individual election under the New Covenant did not occur before Christ became our means of salvation on the cross.

4) "he called (invited) you through (or by means of) His gospel. Thus again requiring our hearing the gospel during our lifetime.

5) Faith is not the cause of our election, but rather God crediting our faith as righteousness that is the cause of our election.

 

[Silverhair]

Acts 13:48 shows us election preceded and results in Faith

Context BF context. You are reading into the text what you want to find. But that seems to be quite common among Calvinists.

I can understand why you are afraid of context as it shows you the error of your theology. The bible is not a book of on e liners as calvinists like to treat it.

By your method you can make the bible say just about anything you want it to say. So it is not the bible you believe but yourself. It is really sad when you have so little regard for the inspired Word of God that you think you can change it at will.

 

[Silverhair]

Jesus taught election unto faith, those are His words. Are you ashamed of them ? Mark 8:38

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

BF again you ignore context. As long as you continue along that line you will never understand the inspired Word of God.

Your continued abuse of His word shows that you are ashamed of His word. If you had any regard for it you would not twist it the way you do.

Why did you not answer my question BF? Afraid of the truth?
Let's try again.

Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?