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Two things God's foreknowledge is not.
- Thread starter 37818
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37818
Well-Known Member
No. Just because God happens to also cause the very thing He also foreknew, the foreknowning is not the causing.
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Wait… he saw me as a sinner and chose to save me from falling off the cliff. How is that not causing a disastrous outcome from occurring?
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that because God foreknows what will happen then He causes it to happen or intervenes and causes it not to happen?
Secondly you say God chose you, how and better still why?
I don’t know
Because of the goodness of His grace
Yet another thread presenting fiction. What does "foreknowledge" mean? Does it mean having knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being used in the present, or does it mean knowledge of the future.
If anyone actually studies how the word translated foreknowledge is utilized, the usage always indicates knowledge gained in the past being used in the present.
The Greek verb transliterated "proginōskō" (G4267) appears 5 times in the NT and the Greek noun "prognōsis" (G4268) appears 2 times in the NT.
In Acts 2:23 the noun would best be translated as "...predetermined plan and prior knowledge of God...." This refers to God's redemption plan formulated before the world began.
In 1 Peter 1:2 the noun would best be translated as "... chosen according to the prior knowledge of God..." This refers to God's prior knowledge that He credited their faith as righteousness.
If we look at the five verb usages, we find the same thing, to know something beforehand.
In Acts 26:5 the verb would best be translated as "...they know me and knew me beforehand, ...."
In Romans 8:29, the verb would best be translated as "...For those God knew beforehand, He also predestined...."
In Romans 11:2, the verb would best be translated as "...whom He knew beforehand...."
In 1 Peter 1:20, the verb would best be translated as "....He (Christ) was known beforehand, before the foundation of the world...."
In 2 Peter 3:17, the verb would best be translated as "...knowing this beforehand, be on guard...."
I provided the basis, compelling evidence that foreknowledge refers to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being used in the present.
I don’t think…that’s nothing but a guess. Knowing makes all the difference in life. Momma taught me that in nappies.
Yes
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
When scripture tells us “those He foreknew”, the word refers to knowing in a relationships It does not mean knowing something about someone.
Many claim claim God “foreknew” who would believe in Jesus and then, based in that information, “chose” them (elect) for salvation.
That turns the Truth of God’s sovereignty upside down and inside out. It is claiming that God responds to what a person does in “electing” them for salvation.
That is the opposite of grace which is unmerited favor.
The Truth is that people respond to what God does. Election is prior to faith. Faith is prior to salvation. The working of God Holy Holy Spirit is in the middle.
peace to you
Many claim claim God “foreknew” who would believe in Jesus and then, based in that information, “chose” them (elect) for salvation.
That turns the Truth of God’s sovereignty upside down and inside out. It is claiming that God responds to what a person does in “electing” them for salvation.
That is the opposite of grace which is unmerited favor.
The Truth is that people respond to what God does. Election is prior to faith. Faith is prior to salvation. The working of God Holy Holy Spirit is in the middle.
peace to you
I 'foreknow' what's coming up in my garden each year because I planted it.
3 to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them a garland for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that he may be glorified. Isa 61
13 But he answered and said, Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Mt 15
37818
Well-Known Member
Did you actually know before you planted them?
Read it!
There are times when foreknowledge is foreseeing (or prophecy).
There are times when foreknowledge is "the causing", God causing of something to occur.
“This is what the Lord says, He who is your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb:
“I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth alone,
Causing the omens of diviners to fail,
Making fools of fortune-tellers;
Causing wise men to turn back
And making their knowledge ridiculous,
Confirming the word of His servant
And carrying out the purpose of His messengers.
It is I who says of Jerusalem,
‘She shall be inhabited!’ And of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built.’
And I will raise her ruins again.
“I am the One who says to the depth of the sea, ‘Dry up!’
And I will make your rivers dry up.
“It is I who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd,
And he will carry out all My desire.’
And he says of Jerusalem, ‘She will be built,’
And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’ ””
(Isaiah 44:24–28, NASB 2020)
Rob“I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth alone,
Causing the omens of diviners to fail,
Making fools of fortune-tellers;
Causing wise men to turn back
And making their knowledge ridiculous,
Confirming the word of His servant
And carrying out the purpose of His messengers.
It is I who says of Jerusalem,
‘She shall be inhabited!’ And of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built.’
And I will raise her ruins again.
“I am the One who says to the depth of the sea, ‘Dry up!’
And I will make your rivers dry up.
“It is I who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd,
And he will carry out all My desire.’
And he says of Jerusalem, ‘She will be built,’
And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.’ ””
(Isaiah 44:24–28, NASB 2020)
Absolutely! Think about it - dumb question. Every gardener 'plans' their garden each year.
Perhaps I'm having trouble with 43's double negative in the opening post.
If foreknowledge means God does not foresee - certainly these attributes are compromised.
Possible ways to define foreknowledge without much compromise include...
I don't like any of these.
Rob
I understood 43' saying as God's foreknowledge means God does not foresee or control?
I believe our faith is founded upon God's divine attributes; omniscience, omnipresence, being two of them (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17).
I believe our faith is founded upon God's divine attributes; omniscience, omnipresence, being two of them (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17).
If foreknowledge means God does not foresee - certainly these attributes are compromised.
Possible ways to define foreknowledge without much compromise include...
- Foreknowledge means God simply knows all the possibilities ... and therefore reacts to events to direct the path of history.
- Foreknowledge means God is capable of predicting what mankind will do because God is mankind's creator [God plays the odds] and God fully prepared to react to these events to control the direction of history.
Rob
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