Baptism Doth Also Now Save Us

[Baptizo]

I'd like to give my understanding of these verses and will be open to other possible interpretations.

1 Peter 3:15-22 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Peter is using water baptism as a type of Noah's Ark. He tells us that the physical water does absolutely nothing to our bodies but it does have a significant connection to the resurrection. Since Noah's Ark was the instrument that saved Noah and his family from the flood, water baptism is the instrument that saves us from having a guilty conscience. It can't be the instrument of our salvation because Peter says Christ once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust and that brings us to God. By imitating Christ in our own death, burial, and resurrection in the water, this will give us the good conscience towards God that we need to equip us to defend our faith and be ready to give an answer to those who would speak evil of us.

 

[Alan Gross]

Since Noah's Ark was the instrument that saved Noah and his family from the flood, water baptism is the instrument that saves us from having a guilty conscience. It can't be the instrument of our salvation because Peter says Christ once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust and that brings us to God. By imitating Christ in our own death, burial, and resurrection in the water, this will give us the good conscience towards God that we need to equip us to defend our faith and be ready to give an answer to those who would speak evil of us.

Exactly.


The One Baptism of the Bible Pictures the One and Only Saving Gospel.

". . . I am made all things to all men,
that I might by all means save some." (I Corinthians 9:22.)

" . . . Eight souls were saved through water.
With respect to which also an antitype - baptism - now saves us:
not a putting off of the filth of the flesh,
but an asking of a good conscience toward God
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
(I Peter 3:20, 21, reworded 'extra-translation'.)

"Since it is in the Bible, it must be Baptist doctrine
and must not be denied by true Baptists
that in some sense baptism now saves us.

"Gross perversion of this doctrine
by 'baby sprinklers' and 'baptismal regenerationists'
must not be allowed to rob us
of what the Bible really teaches on this subject.

"How, then, does baptism save, from what, and to what?"

"Sources and Means.

"Let us distinguish first between sources and means or instruments.

Instrumentally speaking, Paul earnestly sought to "save some"
(I Corinthians 9:22),

but he well understood that he was nothing but a minister
through whom they believed (I Corinthians 3:5).

"So we are said to be saved through the gospel (I Corinthians 15:2)

and through faith (Ephesians 2:8).

"But ultimately, " . . . Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9),

and can come only from and in Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
(Acts 4:10-12.)

"Now, the more spiritually intelligent of the false teachers
who claim that baptism is essential to salvation will admit
that there is no intrinsic merit in the mere outward act of baptism,
but they insist that it is the divinely appointed means
for obtaining the remission of sins.
In this insistence, they are either right or wrong.

"Unity or Conflict?

"Paul tells us that Christ's gifts in the ministry of His church
are designed to bring us to " . . . the unity of the faith . . . ."
(Ephesians 4:13.)

"But the idea that baptism is the means
or a means of obtaining forgiveness of sins
creates irreconcilable conflicts with true scripture teaching
and makes unity of faith impossible.

"All the "proof texts" used (or rather misused)
to teach 'baptismal regeneration' or 'baptismal remission'
are either ambiguous or actually teach truth as opposed to these heresies,
as does our present text.

"On the other hand, the Bible, especially the New Testament,
is full of statements assuring us that all true believers, only believers,
and believers only (prior to and without baptism or other good works)
are in present possession of Everlasting Life
and are Legally Justified before God.

"Picture or Reality?

"Really, the Bible clearly tells us that Biblical baptism
is a picture or "likeness" of the death, burial,
and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 6:3-5.)

"When Jesus was baptized, He declared that
" . . . thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness . . . ."
(Matthew 3:15.)

"Notice: "thus," in this way, not in this act,
but like this; that is, in the death, burial,
and resurrection pictured in this act.

"Let those who will idolize the picture, trust in the picture;
let us who know of the crucified, Risen Savior, trust in Him.

"Antitype

"In the King James version of our text,
baptism is called "the like figure,"
so putting us on guard against mistaking it for the actual Savior.

"More literally, baptism is an antitype of the water
through which eight souls were brought safe.

"Actually, Noah and his family were saved by the ark,
which they entered before the water came.

"The people outside the ark
were baptized sure enough, in the broad sense of the word,
but it was a baptism of death and not of salvation.

"The only sense in which the flood waters
saved Noah and his house is that
"the water increased, and bare up the ark."
(Genesis 7:17.)

"Even so, Biblical baptism, in "much water" (John 3:23),
symbolically lifts up the Lord Jesus, and all who take refuge in Him
escape the judgment appointed to a sin-cursed world.

"Saves From What?

"So it is not from Eternal Judgment that baptism saves us,
except figuratively, as it exalts Christ, our real Savior.

"Yet, if we grasp the spiritual meaning of this symbol,
it can save us from the fatal folly of trusting in our own good works,
including baptism, to save us from the Wrath to Come.

"Christ died for our sins, Christ was buried,
Christ arose again for our justification
(I Corinthians. 15:3; Romans 4:25):
Biblical baptism saves us from forgetting this vital message.

"Baptismal remissionists" and their logical offspring, "baby sprinklers",
have deluded untold millions of souls with false promises and vain hopes.

"Biblical baptism,
not a part of the Gospel but a simple picture of the Gospel,
has saved Baptists and COUNTLESS others from these delusions
through nearly 20 centuries.

Saves To What?

"Biblical baptism, our text informs us, is
"not a putting off of the filth of the flesh,
but an asking of a good conscience toward God
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

"Like any other good work rightly motivated,
baptism is conducive to a good conscience toward God.
Certainly, after we have believed the gospel and trusted Jesus,
after we have been born again (I John 5:1),
if we are true disciples of our Lord (Matthew 28:19),
we shall want to obey Him by being Biblically baptized.

"Only then can we have
"a good conscience toward God" on this point.

"Therefore, "Repent ye, and each of you
be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
because of remission of sins,
and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38.)

==============
[From Christ's Church and Baptism, pp. 70-73.
Scanned and formatted by Jim Duvall.]


More Brong Sermons

 

[MMDAN]

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved through water" as they were in the ark. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that only the righteous (Noah and his family) were dry and therefore safe. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

 

[37818]

How was Noah and his family delivered? in the world that was being destroyed, by the water of the flood?​

. . . eight souls were saved by water. The like figure[anti-type] whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: . . .

 

[Van]

I'd like to give my understanding of these verses and will be open to other possible interpretations.

1 Peter 3:15-22 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Peter is using water baptism as a type of Noah's Ark. He tells us that the physical water does absolutely nothing to our bodies but it does have a significant connection to the resurrection. Since Noah's Ark was the instrument that saved Noah and his family from the flood, water baptism is the instrument that saves us from having a guilty conscience. It can't be the instrument of our salvation because Peter says Christ once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust and that brings us to God. By imitating Christ in our own death, burial, and resurrection in the water, this will give us the good conscience towards God that we need to equip us to defend our faith and be ready to give an answer to those who would speak evil of us.

As you probably know, alternate possible interpretation abound in commentaries concerning this passage. And I hold a very different view as well. Here are my differing views:

1) "Saved by water." The preposition in the Greek is "dia" and means through, so the verse should say saved through water. The water did not contribute, was not instrumental, in being saved, but rather Noah's wooden ark carried the eight to safety "through" the water, meaning through the threat of the water, i.e. drowning.

2) "Baptism now saves you." Here the baptism in view is our spiritual baptism into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration, and thus are a "new creation" in Christ, with a "good" (wiped clean) conscious.

3) "By the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Again the Greek preposition is "dia" and points to the means through which we were saved. Our faith that God raised Jesus from the dead is the basis of God choosing to baptize individuals into Christ..

Summary, water baptism in obedience to Christ's command serves to make our personal testimony before others, but does not save us from the wrath of God, because the "baptism" that saves is our spiritual baptism into Christ.

 

[CJP69]

I'd like to give my understanding of these verses and will be open to other possible interpretations.

1 Peter 3:15-22 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Peter is using water baptism as a type of Noah's Ark. He tells us that the physical water does absolutely nothing to our bodies but it does have a significant connection to the resurrection. Since Noah's Ark was the instrument that saved Noah and his family from the flood, water baptism is the instrument that saves us from having a guilty conscience. It can't be the instrument of our salvation because Peter says Christ once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust and that brings us to God. By imitating Christ in our own death, burial, and resurrection in the water, this will give us the good conscience towards God that we need to equip us to defend our faith and be ready to give an answer to those who would speak evil of us.

Your commentary would be dead on accurate if were were Jews, Members of the Nation of Israel, saved under the Dispensation of Law.

Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.


I Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion....

I Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.
​

In short, we are not Jews and so when reading Peter's epistles we have to remember that we are reading someone else's mail. If we fail to do so, the result will be legalism and a reliance on our flesh and the teaching of a works based salvation.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,​

Clete

 

[kyredneck]

In short, we are not Jews and so when reading Peter's epistles we have to remember that we are reading someone else's mail.

Spot on, and it was 'James and Cephas and John', not only Cephas, who were entrusted with the gospel of the circumcision.

"We are reading someone else's mail" applies to the entire Book:

1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

2. Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

3. The Scriptures are to be interpreted under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which guidance is to be humbly and earnestly sought. - Charles Hodge

 

[CJP69]

Spot on, and it was 'James and Cephas and John', not only Cephas, who were entrusted with the gospel of the circumcision.

"We are reading someone else's mail" applies to the entire Book:

1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

2. Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

3. The Scriptures are to be interpreted under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which guidance is to be humbly and earnestly sought. - Charles Hodge

Well, most of the entire book, right?

Paul's epistles are written to, about and for believers in the current dispensation. When the fullness of the Gentiles has come in and this dispensation ends and God returns again to Israel, then it will be they who are reading someone else's mail when they read Paul's epistles.

What I love about this simple understanding is that it allows me to read passages like I Peter 3:15-22 and I don't have to force it to say something other than what it seems to saying when you simply read it. Baptizo's understanding isn't wrong, it just doesn't apply to us in the Body of Christ. More than that, it teaches precisely what I would expect it to teach to those under a dispensation of law and thus what would otherwise be a problem text for me, turns into a proof text.

The issue of baptism is only one of several doctrines that this happens with. Many of the most divisive doctrines in Christianity, (water baptism being probably the single most divisive of them all) are effortlessly resolved for those who rightly divide the word of truth to the point that we are left with no problem texts in regards to those several issues.

 

[kyredneck]

Well, most of the entire book, right?

Yea.

Consider this 'in the same vein':

"Christ came as Prophet, Priest, and King. As Prophet to Israel in her last days He had nothing to say to non-Jews:

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

Gill:
"...as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8..."

Paul:
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers, Ro 15"
Another look at Matthew 15:24 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

A lot of prevailing evangelical Dispensational fallacies exist due to ignoring this.

 

[kyredneck]

The issue of baptism

Why did Jesus and His disciples baptize?

 

[MrW]

 

[CJP69]

Why did Jesus and His disciples baptize?

There were dozens of baptisms in Jewish tradition and law. Cleansing rituals galore! The reason for any particular baptism depended on the circumstance but generally speaking, the baptisms that Jesus had his followers perform was a baptism signifying repentance and of (re)dedication to the law and righteousness.

Why do you ask?

 

[kyredneck]

Why do you ask?

Lol, i didn't, it's the title of the thread.

 

[kyredneck]

@MrW

...are you posting on the right thread?

 

[CJP69]

There were dozens of baptisms in Jewish tradition and law. Cleansing rituals galore! The reason for any particular baptism depended on the circumstance but generally speaking, the baptisms that Jesus had his followers perform was a baptism signifying repentance and of (re)dedication to the law and righteousness.

Why do you ask?

I didn't notice that it was a link. I thought you were asking the question.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I'd like to give my understanding of these verses and will be open to other possible interpretations.

1 Peter 3:15-22 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Peter is using water baptism as a type of Noah's Ark. He tells us that the physical water does absolutely nothing to our bodies but it does have a significant connection to the resurrection. Since Noah's Ark was the instrument that saved Noah and his family from the flood, water baptism is the instrument that saves us from having a guilty conscience. It can't be the instrument of our salvation because Peter says Christ once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust and that brings us to God. By imitating Christ in our own death, burial, and resurrection in the water, this will give us the good conscience towards God that we need to equip us to defend our faith and be ready to give an answer to those who would speak evil of us.

I have been a Baptist minister for many years, but fortunately, I had not before today come across this “understanding.”

 

[Craigbythesea]

1 Peter 3:21. And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him. (NRSV)

Christians, with the exception of those whose theology is Baptist (with or without add-ons), believe that the grace of God for salvation is normatively conferred upon the believer through water baptism. And this was the virtually the unanimous view of the Church for 1600 years—even surviving the first 100 years of the Protestant Reformation!

However, this was NOT my experience! I was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit for several weeks before I was baptized in water by immersion. Millions of other Christians have had a similar experience. But Peter did not share that experience, and in his first epistle, he wrote,

1 Peter 3:21 ὃ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα, οὐ σαρκὸς ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου ἀλλὰ συνειδήσεως ἀγαθῆς ἐπερώτημα εἰς θεόν, δι’ ἀναστάσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
22 ὅς ἐστιν ἐν δεξιᾷ τοῦ θεοῦ πορευθεὶς εἰς οὐρανὸν ὑποταγέντων αὐτῷ ἀγγέλων καὶ ἐξουσιῶν καὶ δυνάμεων. (NA28)

21. And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22. who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him. (NRSV)

In each of these two verses, there is only one verb in the indicative mood—and hence there is only one main clause in each of the verses. In verse 21, the verb that is in the indicative mood is the verb σῴζει (saves) giving us the primary clause, “baptism now saves you.” All of the other clauses are subordinate clauses, and being subordinate clauses, they can add qualifiers, but they cannot change the primary clause, “baptism now saves you.” Peter wrote it, but I did not experience it. A whole lot has happened in the church since Peter penned these words, and they are not applicable to everyone today.


This is simple, first semester Greek so it was universally understood before some people began to say in the 17th century, “That cannot be true, because baptism is not efficacious for salivation!” I do not know where they got that idea from, but they certainly did not get it from Peter!

 

[CJP69]

This is simple, first semester Greek so it was universally understood before some people began to say in the 17th century, “That cannot be true, because baptism is not efficacious for salivation!” I do not know where they got that idea from, but they certainly did not get it from Peter!

Quite so! (Well, except for the 17th century part! The idea is very very much older than that. It was merely rediscovered after printings of the bible became more widely available in the common language of the people.)

Still! They certainly did not get the idea from Peter!!

Context is everything!

Who was Peter writing to?

Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.​

 

[Craigbythesea]

Quite so! (Well, except for the 17th century part! The idea is very very much older than that. It was merely rediscovered after printings of the bible became more widely available in the common language of the people.)

That is odd. Church history knows nothing of the sort!

 

[CJP69]

That is odd. Church history knows nothing of the sort!

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Three things...

One sees what they look for and are blind to what they don't.

History is written by those in power.

The bible is the only history book that is relevant to Christian doctrine.