God's Desire

[Van]

Does God desire all people (1 Timothy 2:4) to be saved unconditionally, or only according to His redemption plan?

Since all people are not saved, for example the person headed for swift destruction in 2 Peter 2:1, then God's desire is not unconditionally applied, but conditionally applied, to those whose faith in Christ He credits as righteous faith.

In order to make this possibility of salvation available to all humanity, Christ died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6.)

Another question is just what is the extent or scope of those in the "all people" group. Certainly the group is limited, thus not every human, because all must come to salvation in accordance with His redemption plan. But another factor also seems to limit the scope. God plan has determined when Christ will return, so the "all people" seems limited to the number of people God's redemption plan has set to end this age and bring about Christ's return.

 

[37818]

Revelation 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Van]

Revelation 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Are you trying to claim that those whose names were not written in the [Lamb's] Book of Life were not saved according to God's redemption plan?

 

[37818]

Are you trying to claim that those whose names were not written in the [Lamb's] Book of Life were not saved according to God's redemption plan?

If one's name is not in the book of life, one is lost.

 

[Van]

If one's name is not in the book of life, one is lost.

I guess that is a yes!!

 

[JD731]

Check the record. There is no name added to the book, only blotted out.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Isaiah 5:14
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[37818]

I guess that is a yes!!

I didn't say yes. One's name is not in the book of life because one is lost. How do you think one's name is and is not in the book of life?


One's name not in the book of life is the definitive reason one is lost.

 

[Van]

I didn't say yes. One's name is not in the book of life because one is lost. How do you think one's name is and is not in the book of life?

One's name not in the book of life is the definitive reason one is lost.

My view is if your name is not in the Lamb's book of life, you are lost.

Everyone whose name is not found in the Lamb's book of life is tossed into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:15

 

[Van]

Check the record. There is no name added to the book, only blotted out.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Isaiah 5:14
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This claim is a complete and total fiction. Everyone whose name is written in the Lamb's book of life is saved, and no one is ever blotted out of His book. Revelation 3:5

 

[37818]

My view is if your name is not in the Lamb's book of life, you are lost.

Everyone whose name is not found in the Lamb's book of life is tossed into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:15

We agree on that.

1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-4, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[37818]

Check the record. There is no name added to the book, only blotted out.

Agreed.

But do you understand how names are in the book?

 

[JD731]

This claim is a complete and total fiction. Everyone whose name is written in the Lamb's book of life is saved, and no one is ever blotted out of His book. Revelation 3:5

I am not asking you to prove your doctrines by the scriptures for two reasons, Van. Number 1, you can't prove your take on this one, and number two, you rarely ever do in proper context. It will be easy to find the scriptures where names are blotted out but you cannot find where any are added in. (note: this is true of real Bibles and I acknowledge that some of these new translations are probably different). It might be profitable to carefully study the doctrine of the book of life because it might not mean exactly what we have assumed it means or that we have been taught that it means.

 

[JD731]

Agreed.

But do you understand how names are in the book?

I know what I would say about it but I do not know what you would say. Care to share. I am in a learning mode today.

 

[37818]

I know what I would say about it but I do not know what you would say. Care to share. I am in a learning mode today.

I am of the persuasion all names start out in the book of life, based on Christ's finished work on the cross. 1 Timothy 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[Van]

I am not asking you to prove your doctrines by the scriptures for two reasons, Van. Number 1, you can't prove your take on this one, and number two, you rarely ever do in proper context. It will be easy to find the scriptures where names are blotted out but you cannot find where any are added in. (note: this is true of real Bibles and I acknowledge that some of these new translations are probably different). It might be profitable to carefully study the doctrine of the book of life because it might not mean exactly what we have assumed it means or that we have been taught that it means.

Yet another post running from scripture and making disparaging claims about me personally. Not useful.

I provided a verse where names are never blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Full Stop

 

[Van]

I am of the persuasion all names start out in the book of life, based on Christ's finished work on the cross. 1 Timothy 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

There is no verse that says or suggests names start out in the Lamb's book of Life!!! Note that the person heading for destruction was bought, so the claim everyone's name was entered on account of the ransom for all is bogus. Providing the means of reconciliation is not the same as receiving the reconciliation.

 

[JD731]

Yet another post running from scripture and making disparaging claims about me personally. Not useful.

I provided a verse where names are never blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Full Stop

Well ,I told you different Bibles says different things. My Bible (KJV) does not say that God writes in the names of the living when they get saved, but he blots names out of the book of the living because they oppose him. What else can he do? I would quote God but I if I have learned anything about most who comment here, providing scripture in enough volume to show context is almost never accepted here.Scripture in context never trumps the writings of the high profile book writer and preacher of the pack.

 

[JD731]

I am of the persuasion all names start out in the book of life, based on Christ's finished work on the cross. 1 Timothy 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I think you are right. A reasonable question is why did God create hell for the devil and his angels if his intention was to put men there? Sometimes reasoning and logic adds to our knowledge.

 

[Van]

Well ,I told you different Bibles says different things. My Bible (KJV) does not say that God writes in the names of the living when they get saved, but he blots names out of the book of the living because they oppose him. What else can he do? I would quote God but I if I have learned anything about most who comment here, providing scripture in enough volume to show context is almost never accepted here.Scripture in context never trumps the writings of the high profile book writer and preacher of the pack.

LOL - give a specific reference to a verse that disagrees with Revelation 3:5.

Rev 3:5 (KJV)
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Van]

Rev 17:8 (KJV)
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

1) Since some people did not have their names written into the book, other names were written in as some names were found in the book. Those whose names were not found were tossed into the Lake of Fire.

2) The time period in view, from or since the foundation of the world refers to day 5 of Creation, to the future end of the age. This is the time period when names are written into the Lamb's book of life.