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The False Gospel of Arminianism
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Ive listened to him before and read some of his books, he is sound in many points.
Obviously Arminianism, Calvinism, and Amyraldinism are not actually false gospels.
Each are relatively recent (in terms of the Chriatian faith) understandings of how God affects salvation, not the Gospel itself.
All three become false gospels when one places the position they agree with in place of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The problem with the video is the pastor does not address the philosophical positions he lays over Scripture while condemning the presupposed ideas of Arminianism. It is akin to one Mormon sect condemning another without actually examining Mormonism itself.
Arminianism, Amyraldinism, and Calvinism represents disagreements in the same overall theological system (they were once all within orthodox Calvinism, until in the late 17th century).
Arminianism and Calvinism - in twrms of doctrine - did not drift apart but people became more polarized and insistent about leaning on their understanding. (Remember, James Arminius died an orthodox Calvinist.)
Each are relatively recent (in terms of the Chriatian faith) understandings of how God affects salvation, not the Gospel itself.
All three become false gospels when one places the position they agree with in place of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The problem with the video is the pastor does not address the philosophical positions he lays over Scripture while condemning the presupposed ideas of Arminianism. It is akin to one Mormon sect condemning another without actually examining Mormonism itself.
Arminianism, Amyraldinism, and Calvinism represents disagreements in the same overall theological system (they were once all within orthodox Calvinism, until in the late 17th century).
Arminianism and Calvinism - in twrms of doctrine - did not drift apart but people became more polarized and insistent about leaning on their understanding. (Remember, James Arminius died an orthodox Calvinist.)
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The thing about Sonny is that he doesnt believe the elect are justified b4 God until they are regenerated and put faith in Christ. I see that as arminianism. He doesnt believe the elect are Justified b4 God from eternity or even at the cross when He shed His Blood for them in the time sense.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Why do you see that as Arminianism? Sonny believes that faith is God-given, as the Bible teaches.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Good question, because he believes Justification before God isnt based solely on the Work of Christ, but only after the the regenerated person performs an act of believing. See whether one conditions their justification b4 God on their act, whether as an unregenerate or a regenerate, it falls into a Justification by works b4 God, to me all that is arminianism
Believing is not a work, it's a requirement, the condition to be saved!
"What must I do to be saved" asked the jailer.
Paul replied, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."
KenH
Well-Known Member
Thanks for you explanation. I understand it; however, I disagree with it. I know fellow believers who hold to justification at the point of God-given faith, and I have no doubts as to their salvation. Since God chose His elect from eternity and gave them to Christ to be their Surety, their salvation was secure - a "done deal". What happens during this life on earth is linear, as we are creatures of time on this earth, so I have no problem with justification at the point of God-given faith, nor for that matter, with justification at the cross. Personally, I think all three positions are correct, while I hold to justification from eternity.
Remember, even though Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", He actually died in time on the cross about 2000 years ago, though it was a "done deal" from eternity.
KenH
Well-Known Member
The believers I know who hold to justification at the point of God-given faith do not consider it to be a condition that the elect have to fulfill; they believe, as the Bible teaches, that Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for ALL of God's elect in order for them to be saved.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Faith is given by God, not developed by spiritually dead, fallen humans.
Are you saying that Calvinism proper teaches eternal justification then?
The Elect will still have to receive Jesus as their Lord and savior by faith alone, as none of us born already saved state
Brother seems to be holding to a form of eternal justification, as in hyper Calvinism?
That's true, faith is given by God! but how and on what terms is it given?
Paul said, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."
Faith doesn't come from hearing anything, only from hearing the Word of God.
That faith is offered to man when you and I proclaim the Gospel, the Word of God, to another.
Then they are forced to accept or reject that Gospel.
You see, Ken, faith is a package deal with salvation.
When man hears the Gospel and reacts to it in a positive way, seeing through that Gospel message that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour, God grants faith to believe. That person is given by God the faith to believe in His Son, to believe He is the only answer to his problem.
But all men will not accept this truth, they will deny they need that Saviour when they hear the Gospel, and they are not granted the faith to believe and be saved.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Various "Calvinists" hold to any of the three common positions for the point of justification - from eternity, at the cross, at the point of God-given faith.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Of course, all of God's elect, chosen by God the Father and given to Christ to be their Surety from eternity, will be placed under the hearing of the gospel of the finished work of Christ during their time on this earth, the Holy Spirit will regenerate them, and they are then given faith to believe the gospel of Christ and to repent of their dead works.
KenH
Well-Known Member
“Many are the acts and instances of divine goodness to the people of God in common. It has been observed, that the attribute of "goodness", and the epithet of "good", belong to each of the three divine persons, Father, Son, and Spirit; and they have each of them manifested their goodness in acts of it.
Jehovah the Father, has displayed his goodness to his special people, in his good designs towards them, and thoughts of them; in setting them apart for himself, his own glory, and their good; in laying up all good things for them in Christ, and in the covenant of his grace; in making promises of good things to them, both for this life, and that which is to come; and in bestowing good gifts on them, the gift of himself, the gift of his Son, and the gift of his Spirit; and all the blessings of goodness, as of adoption, justification, pardon of sin, etc. and all the graces of the Spirit, as the gift of faith, of repentance, of a good hope of eternal life, and also the gift of eternal life itself. Jehovah the Son, has manifested his goodness to the same persons; in becoming a Surety, and undertaking for their good; in partaking of their nature, in which good will to men was expressed; and in working out the great and good work of their redemption and salvation; he is the good Shepherd, and has shown himself to be so, by laying down his life for the sheep, and by providing a good fold, and good pasture for them: he is, and has been, in all ages, the Fountain of goodness and grace to all his people, for the supply of all their wants; and he ever lives to speak a good word, and intercede for good things for them. Jehovah the Spirit, is good unto them, as a Teacher, Sanctifier, and Comforter of them, as a Spirit of adoption, grace, and supplication; as the author of the good work of grace in them; as the guide of them through this world; and as the earnest and pledge of their future glory, and a sealer of them up unto the day of redemption.”
“The covenant God made with Abraham and his seed, concerning their having the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession, was conditional; if willing and obedient, and so long as they behaved themselves well, according to the laws of God given them, they were to possess it, and enjoy the good things of it, (Isaiah 1:19) but if otherwise, to be dispossessed of it; and accordingly, when they broke the laws of God, their neighboring nations were let in upon them, and harassed and distressed them, or they were carried captive by them out of it; as, first by the Assyrians, then by the Chaldeans, and at last by the Romans; in which state they now are. But not such is the covenant of grace, that is without any conditions on the part of men. Some, indeed, make it to be a conditional covenant, and faith and repentance to be the conditions of it.
But these are not conditions, but blessings of the covenant, and are as absolutely promised in it, as anything else; the promise of a "new heart", and of a "new spirit", includes the gift of faith, and every other grace; and that of taking away the "stony heart", and giving an "heart of flesh", is fully expressive of the gift of the grace of repentance, (Ezekiel 36:26). Besides, if these were conditions of the covenant, to be performed by men in their own strength, in order to be admitted into it, and receive the benefits of it; they would be as hard, and as difficult to be performed, as the condition of the covenant of works, perfect obedience; since faith requires, to the production of it, almighty power, even such as was put forth in raising Christ from the dead, (Ephesians 1:19,20) and though God may give men means, and time, and space of repentance, yet if he does not give them grace to repent, they never will. Christ's work, and the Spirit's grace, supersede all conditions in the covenant, respecting men; since they provide for everything that can be thought of, that is required or is wanting: Christ's work of redemption, atonement, and satisfaction for sin, as has been observed, is the only condition of the covenant; and that lies on the Mediator and Surety of the covenant, and not on the persons for whose sake it is made; "When you shall make his soul", or, "if his soul shall make an offering for sin", (Isaiah 53:10) then such and such things are promised in the covenant, both to him and to his seed. Otherwise, the promises to them are absolute and unconditional, and run in this strain, I "will", and they "shall", without any "ifs" or conditions; as, I "will" be their God, and they "shall" be my people; I "will" put my law in their hearts; I "will" forgive their iniquities; they "shall" all know me, from the least to the greatest; I "will" put my fear in their hearts, that they "shall" not depart from me; I "will" sprinkle clean water upon you, and you "shall" be clean; I "will" give you a new heart, and a new spirit, and an heart of flesh; and I "will" take away the stony heart, and I "will" put my Spirit within you, and "cause" you to walk in my statutes, and you "shall" keep my judgments, and do them, (Jeremiah 31:33,34,32:38,40; Ezekiel 36:25-27).
The blessings of the covenant are not suspended on any conditions to be performed; they do not wait for any, but take place without them. Redemption by Christ, the great article of the covenant, was not deferred on account of any condition to be performed by men; but Christ, in the fullness of time agreed on in covenant, when men were without strength to do anything, died for the ungodly; while they were yet sinners Christ died for them; and when enemies, they were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; and herein appeared the love of God; not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins (Romans 5:6,8,10; 1 John 4:10). Adoption takes place among men, who were not the people of God; and justification has for its objects the ungodly; and God forgives the iniquities of men, and remembers them no more, though they have done nothing to deserve it, but are guilty of the greatest ingratitude and unkindness; and regeneration finds men dead in trespasses and sins, foolish, disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, without any previous dispositions or preparations in them for it (Hosea 1:10; Romans 4:5; Isaiah 43:25; Ephesians 2:4,5).”
Excerpts from John Gill’s A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
(emphasis mine)
Where we disagree is HOW they come to that faith. We are worlds apart on how God calls man to repentance.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"2b1. From eternal election: the objects of justification are God's elect; "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? it is God that justifies"; that is, the elect. Now if God's elect, as such, can have nothing laid to their charge; but are by God acquitted, discharged, and justified; and if they bore this character of elect from eternity, or were chosen in Christ before the world began; then they must be acquitted, discharged and justified so early, so as nothing could be laid to their charge: besides, by electing grace men were put into Christ, and were considered as in him before the foundation of the world; and if they were considered as in him, they must be considered as righteous or unrighteous; not surely as unrighteous, unjustified, and in a state of condemnation; for "there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ", (Romans 8:1) and therefore must be considered as righteous, and so justified: "Justified then we were, says Dr. Goodwin when first elected, though not in our own persons, yet in our Head, as he had our persons then given him, and we came to have a being and an interest in him."
2b2. Justification may well be considered as a branch of election; it is no other, as one expresses it, than setting apart the elect alone to be partakers of Christ's righteousness; and a setting apart Christ's righteousness for the elect only; it is mentioned along with election, as of the same date with it; "Wherein", that is, in the grace of God, particularly the electing grace of God, spoken of before, "he has made us accepted in the beloved" (Ephesians 1:6). What is this acceptance in Christ, but justification in him? and this is expressed as a past act, in the same language as other eternal things be in the context, he "has" blessed us, and he "has" chosen us, and "having" predestined us, so he has made us accepted; and, indeed, as Christ as always the beloved of God, and well pleasing to him; so all given to him, and in him, were beloved of God, well pleasing to him, and accepted with him, or justified in him from eternity.
2b3. Justification is one of those spiritual blessings with which the elect are blessed in Christ according to election-grace, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3,4). That justification is a spiritual blessing none will deny; and if the elect were blessed with all spiritual blessings, then with this; and if thus blessed according to election, or when elected, then before the foundation of the world: and this grace of justification must be no small part of that "grace which was given in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world was" (2 Timothy 1:9). We may say, says Dr. Goodwin, of all spiritual blessings in Christ, what is said of Christ, that his goings forth are from everlasting—in Christ we were blessed with all spiritual blessings, (Ephesians 1:3) as we are blessed with all other, so with this also, that we were justified then in Christ!
2b4. Christ became a Surety for his people from everlasting; engaged to pay their debts, bear their sins, and make satisfaction for them; and was accepted of as such by God his Father, who thenceforward looked at him for payment and satisfaction, and looked at them as discharged, and so they were in his eternal mind; and it is a rule that will hold good, as Maccovius observes, "that as soon as one becomes a surety for another, the other is immediately freed, if the surety be accepted;" which is the case here and it is but a piece of common prudence, when a man has a bad debt, and has good security for it, to look not to the principal debtor, who will never be able to pay him, but to his good bondsman and surety, who is able; and so Dr. Goodwin observes, that God, in the everlasting transaction with Christ, "told him, as it were, that he would look for his debt and satisfaction of him, and that he did let the sinners go free; and so they are in this respect, justified from all eternity."
2b5. The everlasting transaction, the same excellent writer thinks, is imported in 2 Corinthians 5:19. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them". And the very learned Witsius is of opinion, "that this act of God may be called, the general justification of the elect." And, indeed, since it was the determination of God, and the scheme and method he proposed to take in Christ for the reconciliation of the elect, not to impute their sins to them, but to his Son, their Surety; then seeing they are not imputed to them, but to him; and if reckoned and accounted to him, then not to them; and if charged to him, then they must be discharged from them, and so justified; and a non-imputation of sin to the elect, is no other than a justification of them; and thus the apostle strongly concludes the imputation of Christ's righteousness; which is the "formalis ratio", or the form of justification, from the non-imputation of sin, and the remission of it (Romans 4:6-8)."
- excerpt from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity