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Our primary evidence of our risen Christ.

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
One cannot know the true Christ apart from special divine revelation i n the sacred scriptures
Do you mean know Christ or know about Christ?

I ask because if you mean we cannot know Christ except what we know about Him in Scripture you are missing out.

What can sinners know about Jesus in a saving fashion apart from the bible then?
What another Christian tells them.

The gospel existed prior to the New Testament text. We can read about in the New Testament.

But the gospel is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes.


Our faith, even though you deny it, stands on the Person and work of Jesus Christ.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
What you are doing is essentually making binlical truths into myths (existing outside of history, outside of reality).
No.
Exodus 12:18, In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .

Exodus 12:6, And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in between the two evenings.

Your date could be correct. But it cannot be known as the correct date because it could also be wrong.
Some things can be proven about a date.
Not a Friday.
And not a Wednesday.

The year becomes an issue. Why it cannot be a certain year.

How did the Passover in 65 AD department from the command in Exodus?
So what? What difference does it make to the year of crucifixion?


The year and date dont make a difference.

Did you find out when all Oasdovers were observed in the OT?
No. Explain it to.me.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
No.
Exodus 12:18, In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .

Exodus 12:6, And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in between the two evenings.
You are missing the point (the reason why we cannot know the date in our calendar system).

The 1st day of the month has been determined various ways.

1. You are using a system of calculating lunar cycles.
2. Prior to the 4th century AD mathematical solar-lunar systems were not used.
3. You cannot calculate what was observed.

Two people had to apoear before the Sanhedrin and give a report of their observations.
The Sanhedrin would question each individually and determine if they were accurate.
If determined to be accurate then the month would start.

In the Bible Passover started a month late (reasons other than observation).
In the 1st century BC the month started later due to human interference.
In the 1st century AD the month started later due to a debate over the validity of witnesses.

1. You cannot definitively date the Crucifixion because you cannot definitively date the Passover.
2. You cannot definitively date the Passover because you cannot definitively date the 1st of the month.
3. You cannot definitively date the 1st of the month because you do not know what was observed, reported, or decided.
4. You cannot know what was observed, reported, or decided because it is not recorded and it cannot be determined via calculation.


You can say that the last full lunar eclipse over my home was Jan 20, 2019. But you can't say that it was visible or observed by those living in my city (it wasn't...it had been raining and was cloudy).

The problem you have is you are imposing a more modern system onto 1st century Jews and ignoring the system they actually used.

History itself proves you wrong.

You have simply made up your mind and your pride cannot let you come to grip with reality. The only problem is you lean more towards Scripture being a myth (the way it should be in a vacuum). The danger is you have moved your theory (that the evening was clear, that Jews some how used a 4th century system for that one year in the 1st century then went back to strict - in their view - observance of Scripture until the 4th century) as somehow your proof of the resurrection.

Your date could be correct. But it cannot be known as the correct date because it could also be wrong.

No.
Exodus 12:18, In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .

Exodus 12:6, And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in between the two evenings.
Oh...

And to clarify -

Nobody is arguing against the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening they ate unleavened bread. Nobody is arguing the first day of unleavened bread being when they killed the passover. Nobody is arguing against them keeping it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall killing it in between the two evenings.

The fact is you cannot know definitively the date (our calendar) of the 1st of their month. You are also ignoring significant Jewish practices.

How did the Passover in 65 AD department from the command in Exodus?

In the Old Testament on what day was all Passovers observed?

Some things can be proven about a date.
Not a Friday.
And not a Wednesday.

The year becomes an issue. Why it cannot be a certain year.
It was on a certain year. We just can't know it.

The reason is they changed to calculating the lunar cycles in the 4th century AD. In the 1st century they used the witness if people having seen the new moon. This put the month off by 1 or more days.

The Sanhedrin listened to witnesses and evaluated them individually. If reports were consistent it woukd be judged true. But the witnesses could not see what was not visible to them. And overcast sky was an issue. Burning fires to prevent observations (their enemies did this) was an issue.

So what? What difference does it make to the year of crucifixion?
The year and date dont make a difference.

Did you find out when all Oasdovers were observed in the OT?

No. Explain it to.me.
If you can't answer that question (the date the Passover was observed in the OT) then what are we even talking about?

Work with me.....do you know at least what month all OT Passover observances occurred?
 

37818

Well-Known Member
If you can't answer that question (the date the Passover was observed in the OT) then what are we even talking about?

Work with me.....do you know what month all OT Passover observances occurred?
Which OT Passover occurrence are you referring to?
Exodus 12:2, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

There is disagreement as to its original year.

And I am not sure about your question.

You explain to me.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Which OT Passover occurrence are you referring to?
Exodus 12:2, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

There is disagreement as to its original year.

And I am not sure about your question.

You explain to me.
Sorry. I must not have been clear.

I was asking about which date or dates the Passover observances occurred in the Old Testament (not the Exodus Passover but afterwards when the Jews observed the Passover).

Not year. Let's just start with the month and then maybe continue to narrow it down to a specific day.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Sorry. I must not have been clear.

I was asking about which date or dates the Passover observances occurred in the Old Testament (not the Exodus Passover but afterwards when the Jews observed the Passover).

Not year. Let's just start with the month and then maybe continue to narrow it down to a specific day.
The month and it's 8 days of the Passover. Exodus 12:1-18.
 
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