OLD SARGE
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Ungodly Divisions
- Thread starter OLD SARGE
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This is why people should return to the Catholic Church, and huge numbers already are.
Protestantism is a house divided against itself.
It’s like America being run by each individual by constitution alone with a fixed legislative deposit, but no authoritive Supreme Court to interpret that legislative deposit.
America would be utter chaos if each individual interpreted the constitution and legislation for himself, and this is perfectly analogous to Protestantism or Bible alonism.
No Nation or Kingdom is governed by one pillar, there needs to be three pillars at least for stability. The Legislative Authority, The Judicial Authority and Executive Authority.
Jesus established an Apostolic Government of Apostolic Shepherds to govern His Kingdom.
“Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
The Apostles Rule in their successors that they appointed to rule after them.
Protestantism isn’t governed by the Apostles, they rejected the Apostolic Church and chose self government by each man’s opinions of scripture.
They are feral sheep without an Apostolic shepherd and the wolves have been tearing them apart and scattering them farther and wider.
Governed by each man’s ever changing opinion of scripture, they have no choice but to scatter, their tendency to self willed individualism prevents them from flocking together. They are anti-flock itself, trained and bred into their DNA not to flock, but follow their own noses.
The author talks about merging being the way to fix the problem, but he seems to have missed the blaring obvious.
The Catholic Church has all the pillars of Christ’s governance, it’s government canonised the Scriptures and interprets Scripture with true Authority, and teaches the Gospel in all Truth.
Christ’s flock has Peter as its Shepherd.
Protestantism is a house divided against itself.
It’s like America being run by each individual by constitution alone with a fixed legislative deposit, but no authoritive Supreme Court to interpret that legislative deposit.
America would be utter chaos if each individual interpreted the constitution and legislation for himself, and this is perfectly analogous to Protestantism or Bible alonism.
No Nation or Kingdom is governed by one pillar, there needs to be three pillars at least for stability. The Legislative Authority, The Judicial Authority and Executive Authority.
Jesus established an Apostolic Government of Apostolic Shepherds to govern His Kingdom.
“Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
The Apostles Rule in their successors that they appointed to rule after them.
Protestantism isn’t governed by the Apostles, they rejected the Apostolic Church and chose self government by each man’s opinions of scripture.
They are feral sheep without an Apostolic shepherd and the wolves have been tearing them apart and scattering them farther and wider.
Governed by each man’s ever changing opinion of scripture, they have no choice but to scatter, their tendency to self willed individualism prevents them from flocking together. They are anti-flock itself, trained and bred into their DNA not to flock, but follow their own noses.
The author talks about merging being the way to fix the problem, but he seems to have missed the blaring obvious.
The Catholic Church has all the pillars of Christ’s governance, it’s government canonised the Scriptures and interprets Scripture with true Authority, and teaches the Gospel in all Truth.
Christ’s flock has Peter as its Shepherd.
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Years ago, my church underwent a "church split." Our church was thriving, attendance was high, our ministries, adult, youth, and children were reaching and teaching people, with some commuting to full time Christian service. We had a wonderful Senior Pastor whose sermons and classes opened the eyes and hearts of our staff and members.
What could go wrong?
According to scripture, our local church assemblies are to be lead by a plurality of Elders. But our Senior Pastor saw the Elders as subservient to him. So when a dispute arose, with the majority of Elders saying "A," but the Senior Pastor saying "B" they could not resolve the matter. The Senior Pastor, after considerable meditation and prayer, concluded God was calling him to form a new church. About half the members decided to go with the Senior Pastor and they formed a new and thriving church. As both churches have continued to serve their communities, Christ's ministry has continued to be well served.
What could go wrong?
According to scripture, our local church assemblies are to be lead by a plurality of Elders. But our Senior Pastor saw the Elders as subservient to him. So when a dispute arose, with the majority of Elders saying "A," but the Senior Pastor saying "B" they could not resolve the matter. The Senior Pastor, after considerable meditation and prayer, concluded God was calling him to form a new church. About half the members decided to go with the Senior Pastor and they formed a new and thriving church. As both churches have continued to serve their communities, Christ's ministry has continued to be well served.
He is describing the problem of Bible alone Protestantism here perfectly, yet has not received the Grace to see that it was the original rebellion of Protestantism against the Church that is the cause of this chaos of these human founded institutions. These are human founded institutions, therefore they don’t have Christs promise of the indestructible Church.
By returning back to The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, that preserved and Canonised the Bible in the first place, then we can bring reconciliation to the whole world.
One Flock and One Shepherd appointed by Christ, Peter.
“When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”
16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”
17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.”
“Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.” 1 Peter 5
Luther was a wolf and he opened the way to packs of wolves to tear the flock apart.
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. John 10
The senior Pastor would not submit to the plurality of Elders.
Aah, the same authority issue that has plagued Protestantism from the very beginning.
If the Bible is the sole authority, who are the plurality of Elders to expect you to submit to anything? Right?
The only way to resolve the issue in that case, is to divide the church. Which is totally unbiblical.
The Church of Christ politics and governance is laid out as self governing on their websites.
“Each congregation is autonomous and makes its own decisions regarding worship style and interpretation of scripture.”
Laws unto themselves, until that congregation splits and go their separate ways gathering around two different pastors and their interpretations of Scripture.
Priests are under the Authority of their local Bishop, and Bishops are appointed or deposed by the Pope.
In such a large institution, there is bound to be some disobedience somewhere. But the Pope has the full power to discipline anyone in the Church.
A bishop is not free to privately interpret scripture, but only pass down the traditional Apostolic interpretation of Scripture.
Rome is the great Whore of Babylon of the End Days, talk about woe, and God commands us to leave and come from among her in order not to receive her due judgement
Yeah, Pagan Rome.
Catholicism is Christianity that destroyed all the pagan religions of Europe and the British isles and in the New World.
Protestants and Baptist’s never had to face the full force of the pagan world, this was all done by Catholics, Europe had been brought to Christ by Catholics.
You might want to read a book or two, rather than be in ignorance.
Since the final authority says the local churches are to be lead by a plurality of Elder, the various staff members are under their authority, including the Senior Pastor. Scripture says obey your leaders, so a plurality of leaders would overrule any one of them.Aah, the same authority issue that has plagued Protestantism from the very beginning.
If the Bible is the sole authority, who are the plurality of Elders to expect you to submit to anything? Right?
The only way to resolve the issue in that case, is to divide the church. Which is totally unbiblical.
The Church of Christ politics and governance is laid out as self governing on their websites.
“Each congregation is autonomous and makes its own decisions regarding worship style and interpretation of scripture.”
Laws unto themselves, until that congregation splits and go their separate ways gathering around two different pastors and their interpretations of Scripture.
Bible alone Protestantism is not just rejection of the Catholic, Apostolic Church, it is a rebellion against the idea of Authority itself.
Protestantism is a rolling cascade of rebellions against Authority and Authority figures, each new error builds on the foundation of an older error established by subjective human opinion.
Rebellion is the chief virtue of Protestantism, the gates of Hell prevail against Protestant churches all the time there is constant dissent.
How does God often punish, but by allowing more of what people want.
Luther quickly found his proud rebellion was further met with rebellions against his novel heresies he interpreted from Scripture.
Each successive rebel saying “ You have not gone far enough “, more rebellion is always required.
And what is the flimsy foundation of all these rebellions, but human opinion and subjective interpretation of Scripture, and no small amount of pride.
“The senior Pastor would not submit to the plurality of Elders.”
Is it a surprise?
Protestantism is a lineage of “ You’re not the boss of me “
Protestantism is a rolling cascade of rebellions against Authority and Authority figures, each new error builds on the foundation of an older error established by subjective human opinion.
Rebellion is the chief virtue of Protestantism, the gates of Hell prevail against Protestant churches all the time there is constant dissent.
How does God often punish, but by allowing more of what people want.
Luther quickly found his proud rebellion was further met with rebellions against his novel heresies he interpreted from Scripture.
Each successive rebel saying “ You have not gone far enough “, more rebellion is always required.
And what is the flimsy foundation of all these rebellions, but human opinion and subjective interpretation of Scripture, and no small amount of pride.
“The senior Pastor would not submit to the plurality of Elders.”
Is it a surprise?
Protestantism is a lineage of “ You’re not the boss of me “
Have you read this book?
You said: "A bishop is not free to privately interpret scripture, but only pass down the traditional Apostolic interpretation of Scripture."
Then why dont they?
You said: "A bishop is not free to privately interpret scripture, but only pass down the traditional Apostolic interpretation of Scripture."
Then why dont they?
No, from what I understand, it’s an anti Catholic polemic that even the Encyclopedia Britannica recognised as such.
“The gross blunders due to carelessness have often been exposed, and there is no doubt that Foxe was only too ready to believe evil of the Catholics, and he cannot always be exonerated from the charge of wilful falsification of evidence.”
Foxe was a liar in other words.
Foxe would have noticed that the Catholic Church had long kept a canon of martyrology and sainthood for Church remembrance and celebration.
This represented a serious problem to Protestants because they were actively killing and persecuting large numbers of Catholics, and a martyr whether religious or political is more dangerous in death than he ever was in life.
Foxe on seeing all the Catholic martyrs stacking up and seeing its effect publicly, decided to counter it with a martyrology of his own, more for political reasons.
Thomas Moore had been famously martyred 28 years earlier and many, many others were being celebrated as Catholic martyrs.
Bishop Fisher died that same year. Look at the effect it had politically according to wiki.
“ He was executed on Tower Hill on 22 June 1535. The execution had the opposite effect from that which Henry VIII intended, as it created yet another parallel with that of the martyrdom of St. John the Baptist, who was also beheaded; his death also happened on the feast day of Saint Alban, the first martyr of Britain.”
All these Catholic martyrs made Protestantism look extremely bad, Religiously and Politically right across Europe, but also in England itself.
Protestantism couldn’t improve its image with these established famous murders of Catholics, so Foxe did the next best thing to counter it, by making his Catholic enemies behaviour look far worse than that of the Protestant evil travesties.
Mud sling your enemies in the hopes some will stick.
Foxe is an established liar, and malicious embellisher among many other things.
You can tell a servant of Satan by the tools they use, lying, misrepresentation, and malicious embellishments, even secular sources tell us this of Foxe.
People have a choice on recognising it, whether to wisely disassociate from it or perpetuate it and receive the same punishment for it.
Foxes book is a reaction and response to all the martyrdoms of Catholics that made Protestantism look so horrific.
They do for the most part, some have been Judas’, but the Catholic Faith and Chair Peter are still here.
“And he says to him again after the resurrection, ‘Feed my sheep.’ It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church’s) oneness. No doubt the others were all that Peter was, but a primacy is given to Peter, and it is (thus) made clear that there is but one flock which is to be fed by all the apostles in common accord. If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church? This unity firmly should we hold and maintain, especially we bishops, presiding in the Church, in order that we may approve the episcopate itself to be the one and undivided.” Cyprian, The Unity of the Church, 4-5 (A.D. 251-256).
“After such things as these, moreover, they still dare–a false bishop having been appointed for them by, heretics–to set sail and to bear letters from schismatic and profane persons to the throne of Peter, and to the chief church whence priestly unity takes its source; and not to consider that these were the Romans whose faith was praised in the preaching of the apostle, to whom faithlessness could have no access.” Cyprian, To Cornelius, Epistle 54/59:14 (A.D. 252).