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Still required to obey?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
KenH
Well-Known Member
There is no salvation in law keeping(any law) as the only man who ever kept the law perfectly was the God-man, Christ Jesus, and it is by His perfect righteousness imputed to God's chosen ones that they are saved.
Should people behave themselves - speak kindly, act kindly, love their neighbor as themselves, etc., etc., etc.? Yes. But it has nothing to do with salvation. It is the result of having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and having been given a new heart to replace their heart of stone.
sdcoyote
Member
We adopted three Native American children. One was a boy and when we adopted him (through the tribal court system) one of the stipulations was that he had to have traditional hair (quite long) until he was 16 and then he could decide. We agreed.
The boy has been and is a huge blessing to us. Accepted Christ when he was 7, was baptized, and too my knowledge has never drank, smoked, or even sworn. He is a very good baseball player and throws 90 mph at 16. He was all boy and now he is all young man. And a Christ follower.
On his 16th birthday the one present he wanted was a hair cut. I took him to the barber and he got one.
But he was no less obedient to Christ at 15 + 364 days than on his 16th birthday. Paul urges us to be mature Christians and eat meat (metaphorically and literally) depending upon our conscience, while not being a stumbling block to others.
I believe that is what our family did in this situation.
The boy has been and is a huge blessing to us. Accepted Christ when he was 7, was baptized, and too my knowledge has never drank, smoked, or even sworn. He is a very good baseball player and throws 90 mph at 16. He was all boy and now he is all young man. And a Christ follower.
On his 16th birthday the one present he wanted was a hair cut. I took him to the barber and he got one.
But he was no less obedient to Christ at 15 + 364 days than on his 16th birthday. Paul urges us to be mature Christians and eat meat (metaphorically and literally) depending upon our conscience, while not being a stumbling block to others.
I believe that is what our family did in this situation.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I think, for the most part, the OT Law must be understood through a NT lense. It has already fulfilled its purpose in pointing us to Jesus as Messiah.
That does not mean we cannot/ or should not glean useful information from it that should be obeyed.
The 10 Commandments are timeless.
Peace to you
Including keeping the Sabbath?
atpollard
Well-Known Member
In a sense, I think it is. If a man (saved or pagan) labors 7 days a week, week after week without rest, their physical health will ultimately fail and their body will claim the “rest” that was both needed and owed. So keeping THE seventh day for rest is optional (a matter of conscience), but keeping ONE DAY IN SEVEN for rest is probably hard wired as mandatory by the “Original Equipment Manufacturer”.
But the OT Sabbath meant no travel of more than about a half of a mile.
Unless you live in the parsonage next door - you travel much father to church
Many restrictions on the sabbath.
I fully agree you need a day off work each week
but there are many other activities we are involved that are not work......
Unless you live in the parsonage next door - you travel much father to church
Many restrictions on the sabbath.
I fully agree you need a day off work each week
but there are many other activities we are involved that are not work......
No, we do not have to obey the Law (there are moral, cultural, ceremonial, and dietary laws that form one Law). Any disobedience of the Law is breaking the entire Law (it is didobedience....God's command to Adam was not a dietary law as disobedience was a moral transgression).
We don't have to worry about laws IF we have a mind set on the Spirit (are following Christ). BUT IF we do violate a moral law that shows ys we are sinning.
If we just went by how we dress, I think most of us realize Jesus would have been looked down upon because culture has changed. In the 60's He would have been looked upon as a hippie (wearing the robes and sandles).
Who wants to be the guy to show up to an IFB churches wearing sandles????
We don't have to worry about laws IF we have a mind set on the Spirit (are following Christ). BUT IF we do violate a moral law that shows ys we are sinning.
If we just went by how we dress, I think most of us realize Jesus would have been looked down upon because culture has changed. In the 60's He would have been looked upon as a hippie (wearing the robes and sandles).
Who wants to be the guy to show up to an IFB churches wearing sandles????
I don’t think he would be wearing the same clothing. When Jesus came, He wore the same clothing as His contemporaries with some notable specialties.
I believe that if He came to this generation He would not look like he dropped out of the renaissance period like all the pictures show. He would look like everyone else like He did when He came the first time. He would still have notable specialties in His clothing that would set Him apart while being nearly indistinguishable from anyone else.
Paul said that one man regards everyday the same, and another regards a day as he pleases. Basically Paul said not to judge anyone who regards to set aside a particular day.
Christ fulfilled the Law in it's entirety, including the Sabbath Day. He gave us liberty from the work of the Law.
The New Testament marks the end of works as demanded by the Law, Christ is our Sabbath, our rest is found in Him.
I would much rather live during this dispensation of Grace rather than Law, but with the added knowledge this dispensation gives us there comes more responsibility.
Judgement will be more harsh for those with more knowledge, and we in this dispensation of Grace have by far the most knowledge of God and His Christ.
Hello Salty,
The ten commandments are still binding on all men.
We do not keep the OT. Mosaic sabbath as spelled out for that nation.
We do keep the NT.LORDS DAY, unto Jesus, the greater than Moses.
Hebrews4:9 teaches that there remains the keeping of a sabbath day...now called the Lord's day, pointing to the eternal rest in Christ.
JUB
There remains therefore a rest {Gr. Sabbatismos} for the people of God.
NCB
Therefore, a Sabbath rest still remains for the people of God,
YLT
there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,
TLV
So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God.
KJV
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
There remains a one day in 7 rest for God's people, pointing to the eternal rest we have In Jesus.
I will follow this post with the quote from the 1689 confession of faith.
KJV
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Chapter 22: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
1._____ The light of nature shews that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and
doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart
and all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself,
and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of
men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy
Scriptures.
( Jeremiah 10:7; Mark 12:33; Deuteronomy 12:32; Exodus 20:4-6 )
2._____ Religious worship is to be given to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to him alone; not to angels,
saints, or any other creatures; and since the fall, not without a mediator, nor in the mediation of any other but Christ
alone.
( Matthew 4:9, 10; John 6:23; Matthew 28:19; Romans 1:25; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; John 14:6; 1
Timothy 2:5 )
3._____ Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men. But that it may
be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of the Spirit, according to his will; with
understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and when with others, in a known
tongue.
( Psalms 95:1-7; Psalms 65:2; John 14:13, 14; Romans 8:26; 1 John 5:14; 1 Corinthians 14:16, 17 )
4._____ Prayer is to be made for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for
the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.
( 1 Timothy 2:1, 2; 2 Samuel 7:29; 2 Samuel 12:21-23; 1 John 5:16 )
5._____ The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one
another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord; as also the administration
of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to him,
with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings,
upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner.
( 1 Timothy 4:13; 2 Timothy 4:2; Luke 8:18; Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19; Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians
11:26; Esther 4:16; Joel 2:12; Exodus 15:1-19, Psalms 107 )
6._____ Neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship, is now under the gospel, tied unto, or made more
acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed; but God is to be worshipped
everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself; so more solemnly in
the public assemblies, which are not carelessly nor wilfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God by his word or
providence calleth thereunto.
( John 4:21; Malachi 1:11; 1 Timothy 2:8; Acts 10:2; Matthew 6:11; Psalms 55:17; Matthew 6:6; Hebrews 10:25;
Acts 2:42 )
7._____ As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the
worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he
hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the
world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into
the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the
Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering
their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts,
about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private
exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Chapter 22: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
1._____ The light of nature shews that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and
doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart
and all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself,
and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of
men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy
Scriptures.
( Jeremiah 10:7; Mark 12:33; Deuteronomy 12:32; Exodus 20:4-6 )
2._____ Religious worship is to be given to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to him alone; not to angels,
saints, or any other creatures; and since the fall, not without a mediator, nor in the mediation of any other but Christ
alone.
( Matthew 4:9, 10; John 6:23; Matthew 28:19; Romans 1:25; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; John 14:6; 1
Timothy 2:5 )
3._____ Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men. But that it may
be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of the Spirit, according to his will; with
understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and when with others, in a known
tongue.
( Psalms 95:1-7; Psalms 65:2; John 14:13, 14; Romans 8:26; 1 John 5:14; 1 Corinthians 14:16, 17 )
4._____ Prayer is to be made for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for
the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.
( 1 Timothy 2:1, 2; 2 Samuel 7:29; 2 Samuel 12:21-23; 1 John 5:16 )
5._____ The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one
another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord; as also the administration
of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to him,
with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings,
upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner.
( 1 Timothy 4:13; 2 Timothy 4:2; Luke 8:18; Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19; Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians
11:26; Esther 4:16; Joel 2:12; Exodus 15:1-19, Psalms 107 )
6._____ Neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship, is now under the gospel, tied unto, or made more
acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed; but God is to be worshipped
everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself; so more solemnly in
the public assemblies, which are not carelessly nor wilfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God by his word or
providence calleth thereunto.
( John 4:21; Malachi 1:11; 1 Timothy 2:8; Acts 10:2; Matthew 6:11; Psalms 55:17; Matthew 6:6; Hebrews 10:25;
Acts 2:42 )
7._____ As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the
worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he
hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the
world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into
the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the
Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering
their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts,
about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private
exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
Christians are law keepers, not lawless persons. We still keep the 10, all ten of them, as they are found in Jesus.
These dispensations are a false construct. There was grace in both the OT, And the NT>There is law in both OT. and NT.
Yep, dispensationalism gets a bad wrap from those who don't want to understand it.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"When Christ comes He takes the law away and puts in its place the gospel. Christ said: "Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God! He taketh away the first that He may establish the second." (Hebrews 10:9) The first is the law. He takes it away in its condemnation and establishes the gospel in its power. The apostle said: "Our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Ghost and in much assurance." (1 Thessalonians 1:5) When Christ is fully manifested and received by faith, then condemnation is gone. The man is no more under that law. The man who has been standing at the bar before the Judge expecting to hear his condemnation, to his astonishment is acquitted. He goes out of the court free, no more under the law. O what a change, what a wonder! Heaven to dawn on a hell-deserving sinner! God to smile on a self-condemned wretch! Christ by His Spirit to breathe peace to a guilty conscience, where the man has felt, "Peace, why that is not possible!" For he has met that Scripture, and that Scripture may have met him: "There is no peace to the wicked;" (Isaiah 48:22; Isaiah 57:21) and he said, "That is my case." Then to his utter amazement and he cannot believe it he feels peace breathed into his soul. Where is his sin? It is gone."
- excerpt from J.K. Popham's sermon, "Christ, the End of the Law for Righteousness", preached at Galeed Chapel, Brighton, England, on June 24, 1900
- excerpt from J.K. Popham's sermon, "Christ, the End of the Law for Righteousness", preached at Galeed Chapel, Brighton, England, on June 24, 1900
I as well. I was just trying to point out that standards of dress are cultural.
There was a time my mother dressed me in plaid pants
There was a time (fairly recently) that you would never see a man at the beach or a pool with his chest exposed.
There was a time when men would not wear blue jeans in public, women would not wear them at all.
Fashion changes, culture changes...but so do standards.
I do understand it. I also understand it has major flaws