Charlie Kirk debates regarding the Pope & other

[37818]

Romans 6:3-4, Know ye not, that so many of us as were immersed into Jesus Christ were immersed into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by immersion into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[Cathode]

You so suppose. Unless you can correctly present what we don't agree on, you may not be being honest, as you might suppose you are being.

Mate, I looked everywhere to find believers Baptism or only symbolic water Baptism.
All the Churches East and West, even in schism against each other . For the first 1500 years and including the first reformers, all Christianity believed water Baptism was being born again regeneration. It was 100% Universal for one thousand five hundred years.
It’s still the majority Christian belief today, but back then it was totally Universal.

Don’t believe me, look yourself, I gave it better than a college try.

 

[Cathode]

Romans 6:3-4, Know ye not, that so many of us as were immersed into Jesus Christ were immersed into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by immersed into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

This is what happens at Baptism.

When you are immersed in the water, you are immersed in His death.

There is a relationship between the Spirit of God and the Water.

“And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

This was when God’s Spirit brought Life into world in Genesis.

In Baptism we are brought to life by Water and Spirit, not for Eden but for The Kingdom.

 

[37818]

Mate, I looked everywhere to find believers Baptism or only symbolic water Baptism.

Believers' immersion is stated in, Mark 16:16, He that believeth and is immersed shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Symbolic?

Romans 6:3-4, Know ye not, that so many of us as were immersed into Jesus Christ were immersed into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by immersion into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

But you argued,

This is what happens at Baptism.

Baptists who interpreted Romans 6:3-4, so, also interpret the immersion of the Holy Spirit, not being water.

 

[37818]

When you are immersed in the water, you are immersed in His death.

Per Romans 6:3-4. Verse 5, For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, . . . " . . . Likeness . . . ." Symbolic.
"

 

[Cathode]

Per Romans 6:3-4. Verse 5, For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, . . . " . . . Likeness . . . ." Symbolic.
"

We are made in God’s image and likeness, we aren’t just symbolic.

 

[Charlie24]

This is what happens at Baptism.

When you are immersed in the water, you are immersed in His death.

There is a relationship between the Spirit of God and the Water.

“And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

This was when God’s Spirit brought Life into world in Genesis.

In Baptism we are brought to life by Water and Spirit, not for Eden but for The Kingdom.

If you place what you've said in the spiritual sense of water baptism, the circumcision of Christ in the spiritual realm, then you'll be in accordance with Col. 2. "Buried with Him in baptism and risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God."

Then you can see that the physical water baptism is a symbol of your spiritual rebirth that took place in the heart of man.

 

[Mikoo]

No, they preserve the original infallible interpretation of the scripture from the inspired Apostles, they don’t interpret scripture themselves.

This is how it works.

Regenerational water Baptism = The Apostles infallible interpretation of Scripture handed down for 2000 years through the Fathers.

Water Baptism symbolic = Fallible human interpretation of Scripture by Ulrich Zwingli 1520s. Error/heresy.

Again.
So not equal to God's Word. Just their personal opinions/writings. Thanks
Just like your response here.
You can continue follow your writings of fallible men. Meanwhile, Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

 

[Cathode]

If you place what you've said in the spiritual sense of water baptism, the circumcision of Christ in the spiritual realm, then you'll be in accordance with Col. 2. "Buried with Him in baptism and risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God."

Then you can see that the physical water baptism is a symbol of your spiritual rebirth that took place in the heart of man.

There is symbolism but not only symbolism, Water Baptism is Regeneration as well.

I have seen the effects of Baptism anyway so I’m in a different category, I’m not just taking it on Faith.

You don’t have to be shown by Grace like I was, you can arrive at this by reading the scripture.
Also the fact that it was Universally believed by all Christianity for the first 1500 years.
Universal belief means it’s the Truth, because of Christ’s promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church.

If all Christianity was universally deceived for 1500 years on Baptism, then the gates of Hell did prevail against Christ’s Church for one thousand five hundred years. This would make Christ a liar, which He could never be. Thus affirming the universal belief.

Universal belief is a very very different thing. You only condemn yourself by going against it, same with the outcomes of the Ecumenical Councils which are all the heads of all the churches combined gathered to settle questions of belief. Because they are universal, the whole Church gathered.

Symbolic baptism is a heresy founded by Ulrich Zwingli in the 1500s, and most Protestants and Baptist’s I meet don’t even know that he is the originator of this fallible human, unscriptural and unhistoric doctrine.

 

[Cathode]

Again.
So not equal to God's Word. Just their personal opinions/writings. Thanks
Just like your response here.
You can continue follow your writings of fallible men. Meanwhile, Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

How do you know the Bible is the infallible Word of God?

 

[Charlie24]

There is symbolism but not only symbolism, Water Baptism is Regeneration as well.

I have seen the effects of Baptism anyway so I’m in a different category, I’m not just taking it on Faith.

You don’t have to be shown by Grace like I was, you can arrive at this by reading the scripture.
Also the fact that it was Universally believed by all Christianity for the first 1500 years.
Universal belief means it’s the Truth, because of Christ’s promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church.

If all Christianity was universally deceived for 1500 years on Baptism, then the gates of Hell did prevail against Christ’s Church for one thousand five hundred years. This would make Christ a liar, which He could never be. Thus affirming the universal belief.

Universal belief is a very very different thing. You only condemn yourself by going against it, same with the outcomes of the Ecumenical Councils which are all the heads of all the churches combined gathered to settle questions of belief. Because they are universal, the whole Church gathered.

Symbolic baptism is a heresy founded by Ulrich Zwingli in the 1500s, and most Protestants and Baptist’s I meet don’t even know that he is the originator of this fallible human, unscriptural and unhistoric doctrine.

Hello, Cathode!

Here we are again finding our many differences in Scripture. That's the way it is.

I can't place any faith for salvation in a ceremony where I'm depending on another man to perform it.

That's the same type problem Paul had with the Galatian Church, with man performing circumcision.

Paul said they had fallen from Grace, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who makes the ceremony of water baptism a requirement for salvation has placed themselves in the same situation.

 

[Mikoo]

How do you know the Bible is the infallible Word of God?

It's not? Start another thread.
Meanwhile, you can continue to follow your writings of fallible men. Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

 

[Cathode]

Again.
So not equal to God's Word. Just their personal opinions/writings. Thanks
Just like your response here.
You can continue follow your writings of fallible men. Meanwhile, Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

You aren’t following the Word of God, you are following Ulrich Zwingli and he is not listed among the Apostles.

 

[Mikoo]

You aren’t following the Word of God, you are following Ulrich Zwingli and he is not listed among the Apostles.

Lol. OK.
Meanwhile, you can continue to follow your writings of fallible men. Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

 

[Cathode]

I can't place any faith for salvation in a ceremony where I'm depending on another man to perform it.

Doesn’t make sense to me. Are you against ceremonies in particular or human agency?

 

[Charlie24]

Doesn’t make sense to me. Are you against ceremonies in particular or human agency?

No, I'm just dead set against adding anything to salvation other than faith in the finished work of Christ ALONE!

 

[37818]

Water Baptism is Regeneration as well.

The written word of Holy Scripture doesn't teach regeneration by means or necessity of water immersion/baptism.
.

 

[Cathode]

Lol. OK.
Meanwhile, you can continue to follow your writings of fallible men. Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

You are following the fallible doctrines of Ulrich Zwingli and don’t know it.

See, all heretics use scripture and quote scripture, Zwingli was just one of many who interpreted his heresy from scripture.

You are in fact following the writings of fallible men, one in particular on Baptism, Zwingli.

 

[Mikoo]

You are following the fallible doctrines of Ulrich Zwingli and don’t know it.

Lol. Says the rc member who follows the the fallible doctrines/teachings of the fallible men of the rc denomination.

See, all heretics use scripture and quote scripture, Zwingli was just one of many who interpreted his heresy from scripture.

That's some pretty harsh words about your leaders of the rc denomination.

You are in fact following the writings of fallible men, one in particular on Baptism, Zwingli.

Lol. OK. Says the rc member who follows the the fallible doctrines/teachings of the fallible men of the rc denomination.
Meanwhile, you can continue to follow the fallible writings of the fallible men of the rc denomination. Christians will follow the infallible Word of God.

The mormons and jw's do the same.

 

[Cathode]

The written word of Holy Scripture doesn't teach regeneration by means or necessity of water immersion/baptism..

“ Baptism now saves you “

You are viewing scripture by the wrong interpretive lense of human interpretation, namely Zwingli’s wrong interpretation.

This is why heretics are so bad. When Zwingli twisted scripture by his erroneous new interpretation of Scripture, he stole the truth from many generations that followed after him, down to you.

When you follow Zwinglis interpretations of scripture, you aren’t following scripture, you are following Zwingli.

Even Luther and Calvin thought Zwingli was a nut case calling Baptism symbolic, he was against the entire Christian world and all Christianity going back to the Apostles.

Look at the origin of your interpretation of scripture and doctrine, it all goes back to Zwingli.

If someone follows a wrong interpretation of infallible Scripture, they aren’t following Scripture.