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What Is a Jew or an Israelite?

Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
This is from a point being made here, that Jewish believers are still Jews, even though they're Christians, because it's an ethnic thing. They are the physical descendants of Abraham, and still get a slice of real estate in the Middle East.

Let's break that down.

Esau was just as much of Abraham as was Jacob. Why aren't the Edomites referred to as Jews, or heirs to the promises?

Ruth didn't have a drop of Abraham's blood in her. Was she a Jew? An heir to the promises?

The mixed multitude that went out from Egypt with the children of Israel received the law at Sinai. All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do!" Were all the people Jews? Heirs to the promises?

The stranger that was circumcised to celebrate the Passover...like any native-born Israelite, Exodus 12:48 NLT. Was he a Jew? Was he an heir to the promises?

Was Sammy Davis Jr. a Jew? Would he have been entitled to some real estate in the Middle East? What about Ivanka Trump? Is Israel™ now her "homeland"?

What is a Jew?
 
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xlsdraw

Well-Known Member
An Israelite is the descendants of Jacob/Israel through his seed. The seed of man is from the male.

Only God knows who is and isn't an Israelite. The seed of Israel was greatly dispersed throughout the earth by God's Sovereignty for God's reasons.

After King Solomon, the 10 northern tribes were separated from the law and Temple worship for a few hundred years. And then dispersed out of the land by the Assyrians to spread across the earth.

The tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and I believe also the Levites, continued to this day after the law given to Moses, with Jerusalem as the focal point of worship. In essence, the term Judaism is refers to the law given to Moses.

Even some of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi are dispersed throughout the earth, due in part to the Rabbis, erroneously or deviously, changing the Jewish identification to being based upon the mother.

Therefore, there is countless multitudes of people that are Israelites, from all of Jacob's seed, spread throughout the earth, who know not that they are Israelites. Only God knows.

The term Jew is belief based. The term Israelite is seed based.

I'll add more later.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Historically and Linguistically, was the term “Jew” not derived from “Judah” and a reference to the half-Kingdom with a link to the historic tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the landless tribe of Levi?
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
From the biblical standard we know a descendant of Abraham is someone God has chosen (both Jew and Gentile) for salvation based on the kind intention of His will.

They are drawn by God Holy Spirit, convicted of the truth of Jesus Christ (Gospel), regenerated by His power which enables that person to respond with faith in Jesus, they are indwelt by God Holy Spirit as the mark of Salvation and then guided into all truth.

There is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile, they have been made into one new man by the cross of Christ.

There is no separate future for “Jews” and Christians. Christians are “the Israel of God” made up of (former) Jew and Gentile.

Peace to you
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
xlsdraw said:
Only God knows who is and isn't an Israelite.
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So the pasty white Europeans ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and committing genocide may very well be imposters?

xlsdraw said:
The seed of Israel was greatly dispersed throughout the earth by God's Sovereignty for God's reasons.
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We're told why. They were unfaithful to the covenant and rejected their Lord.

That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. - Leviticus 18:28​
​
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. - Leviticus 20:22​
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
xlsdraw said:
An Israelite is the descendants of Jacob/Israel through his seed. The seed of man is from the male.
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God said that it was through Isaac that Abraham's seed would be called, Genesis 21:12.

Esau was as much from Isaac as was Jacob. Why aren't the Edomites considered Abraham's seed?
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Could anything be less relevant to anything than whether Ivanka’s “rejection of so great a salvation” is accepted or rejected by an apostate sect that denies the Son of God, the only way to the Father?
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
I'll cut to the chase. Biblically, a Jew, or Israelite, was one who stood in a covenant relationship with God, ratified by an oath, signified by circumcision, to obey the law of Moses. The obligation extended to legitimate children born of Jews as well, so they were Jews at birth.

To be a Jew was not an ethnic thing. It was a covenant thing. That is why Edom was not considered Abraham's seed, though they were Israel's twin brother, and all the mixed multitude at Sinai was considered Abraham's seed, even though the multitude there was a veritable ethnic melting pot.

Today's Judaism has no relationship whatever with, and bears no resemblance to the Judaism of the Old Testament. It is a montrously deformed bastard child of a religion that had already morphed into a satanic abomination by the time Christ appeared. Pretty sure Satan himself has to hold his nose when reading the Talmud.

(I'm not saying Jews are bad people...well, most Zionists are bad people...but no, Jews are not any worse people than any other Christian or non-Christian, though they are worse off than any other non-Christian.)

The Hebrew race no longer exists. Elizabeth Warren is more Cherokee than any Israeli is Hebrew.

A Jew is one who identifies with Judaism.
 
th1bill

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
This is from a point being made here, that Jewish believers are still Jews, even though they're Christians, because it's an ethnic thing. They are the physical descendants of Abraham, and still get a slice of real estate in the Middle East.

Let's break that down.

Esau was just as much of Abraham as was Jacob. Why aren't the Edomites referred to as Jews, or heirs to the promises?

Ruth didn't have a drop of Abraham's blood in her. Was she a Jew? An heir to the promises?

The mixed multitude that went out from Egypt with the children of Israel received the law at Sinai. All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do!" Were all the people Jews? Heirs to the promises?

The stranger that was circumcised to celebrate the Passover...like any native-born Israelite, Exodus 12:48 NLT. Was he a Jew? Was he an heir to the promises?

Was Sammy Davis Jr. a Jew? Would he have been entitled to some real estate in the Middle East? What about Ivanka Trump? Is Israel™ now her "homeland"?

What is a Jew?
Click to expand...
As I understand it there are two types of Jew. The first are the descendants of Judah and the second is the believers in the Jewish Belief Structure. Sammy falls into the latter group.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
th1bill said:
As I understand it there are two types of Jew. The first are the descendants of Judah and the second is the believers in the Jewish Belief Structure. Sammy falls into the latter group.
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Did that entitle Sammy to a slice of Palestine had he immigrated to Israel™?
 
A

Armchair Apologist

Active Member
I believe that Romans 2:29 makes it clear: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Also, Gal 3:7 - Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Still further - Rom 9:6-8 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Israelites are an ethnic group descending from Eber (father of the Hebrews), Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jews are descendents of Judah but in post-exilic times, it identied all who continued to identify themselves with the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

The modern day Jews were not some modern invention. It should be clear to all that they are descendents of those who lived in Israel and rejected Christ as Messiah. We may not be able to ascertain whether someone is "pure-blooded" or how diluted or "mongrelized" their jewish lineage may be but saying the Hebrew race is extinct is absolutely ridiculous! Why would someone want to identify themselves as being "Jewish" and put up with the grief they have been dealing with the last 2000 or so years? Are unregenerate Jews "Children of Abraham according to the promise?" Absolutely not! They are vessels of wrath fitted to destruction (Rom 9:22).

I do not believe that Christians should blindly and unconditionally support everything that modern Israel does because of Gen 12:3 and I believe this creates serious complications for the Church who has a responsibility to preach the gospel to ALL NATIONS including the Arabs and Palestinians. With all this said, it is quite clear that the Palestinians are the agressors in their current war with Israel. Israel has tried negotiating peace. Palestinians just want Israel to DIE so from a purely objective standpoint, I believe it is clear what side we ought to support.

God is not done with Israel. Blindness in part is come to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. I am not sure what this will look like prophecy wise. God may be gathering the Jews back to their historical homeland but it is clear that he has not replaced their heart of stone with a heart of flesh (Ez 36:24-26). I lean mostly towards a historic premillennial view but regardless of whatever your eschatological view may be (unless you happen to take the heretical full-preterist position), Christ will be descending on the Mount of Olives to face the armies of the world who are encamped around Jerusalem so this is something you are going to have to work out now isn't it? Perhaps it is metaphorical? Have we had any really good "Theological Barfights" over this yet?
 
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