COVINGTON THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY

Everyone has an opinion. Mine is that the education I am receiving is quality. Yours, obviously, is that it is not. I'm not going to get into a fight with someone I don't know about something that is not worth a fight. I will say this, however. If your friend had such a problem with the program at Covington, why did he continue with it?

People can say what they want to say. As for me, until I find something about CTS that seems suspect, I have no reason to leave. As I said, the education I am receiving is quality.

 

First I think it is great that you are trying to learn more about the Word. That is fantastic. I am sure that you are benefiting from your studies with Covington, as you claim to be. The issue, though, for me is the comparison you made when you said:

Two questions: 1) How do you know that Covington rivals the SBC seminaries in terms of quality? How are you making that determination?

2) Are you comparing your Associate-level studies at Covington with graduate level studies at a SBC Seminary and saying that they are on the same playing field?

At any rate, I think that you are certainly mistaken. There are measurable outcomes to consider. Will a graduate of Covington be able to do the same things at the same level as a graduate of a SBC Seminary (all else being equal). Think about original-language exegesis, etc.

But again, its cool that you are studying. No one wants to discourage you from studying. Yet, it seems that a comparison like that ought to be questioned.

 

Coop- I am not looking for a fight either; I just don't agree with what you are saying.

You are correct that everyone has an opinion, but opinions are not what matters here. Covington offers a product that would be great as a certificate program or perhaps even a diploma program...I would think it great if that is what they were doing. The problem is when they start handing out degrees that fool the church. Search committees are notoriously under-educated and often will think that a minister with a CTS doctorate is better trained than a minister with a MDiv from a rigorous seminary. This is most certainly not the case.

As to the material, my friend showed it to me once and I thought that the material was, frankly, close to the level of the SBC's Seminary Extension program. The SE program gives out certificates and diplomas- again, I think that this would be a good market for CTS. Unfortunately, that material was for a CTS Masters degree and was no where near what level such material should be. Again, why do they do this? Award a Masters degree for work at the level of what others award certificates and diplomas? One can simply look at the graduation requirements for their advanced degrees and see that there is a major problem.

As for my friend, he did complete the degree, but did not continue with them afterwards. He used the excuse that he had prepaid for the entire program (cost was a real factor for him). I personally told him that he should have quit when he first received the material. Why he did not, I suspect, is that he wanted the extra degree for his resume.

Anyway, I am not trying to be mean or anything. It is just not honest to claim that the people who finish a Covington degree (in very little time) have put in the same level or amount of work as those that have poured huge amounts of time and effort into a degree at a leading Seminary. That most certainly is not a matter of opinion.

 

Just a suggestion: http://www.iws.edu/IWS/

Robert Webber's materials on worship are GREAT and this is his school which offers graduate studies in worship by modular program I believe.

 

I am not anti-UA schools. There are legit reasons for attending one, if it is beneficial to ministry and requires honest to goodness work, provided you have done work in traditional setting before.

I have known a few guys at Covington who did little more than lead a seminar or write a couple of papers and got a degree. I hope it has upped its requirements.

 

Unless you've studied there you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

Covington is quality Brother. Don't let anyone who hasn't studied at C.T.S tell you differently.

 

That is most certainly NOT the case. Thats like saying, "Unless you drink the Arsenic, you don't really know what will happen."

That is, quite frankly, an ABSURD sentiment. Do you use that same logic when someone tells you to jump off of a bridge, or instructs you to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger? Do you tell your children, "Unless you stick that metal fork in the socket, you just don't know what will happen?!"

To be honest, many here know EXACTLY what they are talking about. You simply look at the course objectives, and the amount of work required. Does 80 to 90 percent of EACH of the courses have extensive 10-20 page research assignment, which is graded critically by the instructor, both in terms of form and content, as well as quality of sources? Does EACH class require extensive reading of 500 or more pages on the particular topic, with tests to assure retention of materials? Does EACH class require interaction with ones peers in the class, either through extensive grades forum posts, or class discussion?

If these elements are not present, if the schools "classes" are not similar in workload to other, accredited institutions, then the school is a mill, and those who get "degrees" there are intentionally deceiving others.


On a different note, I am assuming you are affiliated with the "school", and have created an account here just to try and rebutt these charges. You have two posts, ever, on the BB, and they are both right here. Are you the owner of this "school"?

 

Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Be encouraged Coop. I too have studied and graduated with Covington. I as well graduated from another non-accredited Baptist school in Canada (Toronto Baptist Seminary) and believe me, the rigor of that school is on par with Southern in Louisville or Westminister. Admittedly, Covington is not at the standard of the above schools, but labelling the school a "degree mill" by some is false and laughable to say the least. The school with regards to its curriculum is headed in the right direction. They use many reformed textbooks which have been a blessing to me because I am a reformed Baptist by conviction. I personally have met the President and staff of the school and have found that they are godly folks who love the Lord and desire to provide a quality theological education at a reasonable price.
Havensdad thinks I may be the owner of the school. If he did a little research he would realize that no one "owns" Covington Seminary. It is Trustee run.

 

What is absurd Havie is that you would make the inane statement or suggestion that I am the owner of the school. Get your facts straight and do some research before you make spurios statements. Covington Seminary has no owner. It is run by a Board of Trustees and is chartered legally in Georgia as a legitimate school.

 

I did not suggest anything. I asked. So there were no "facts" to get straight.

Secondly, you draw suspicion to yourself, when you come on this board simply to refute legitimate criticism of a school.

Third, I made no accusation against Covington. I am reformed myself, so I have a natural inclination to like such schools...however, if the criteria that I put forth in my post is not present (i.e. extensive reading and writing requirements, student/teacher interaction, assignments, tests, etc.) and I do not know whether or not it is, then the school is a mill. Your personal feelings on this matters not; a school is either rigorous, and legitimate, or it is not rigorous, and therefore NOT legitimate. Let me put it this way; if a full time student doesn't do some sweating and stressing (over assignments, tests, etc.), the school is probably a mill.

As far as TBS being equivalent to Southern...that is just absurd. I like TBS, and have spoken to people who have gone there...but Southern is one of the top theological institutions in the world. Its rigor and quality is at the top of the pile. TBS is no Southern Seminary.

 

I am not bringing suspicion on myself as I have nothing to hide. Your knowledge of TBS is limited to say the least (again because you never studied there). I know several who have attended both TBS and Southern and they are comparable at the undergrad and graduate levels. In fact two of the TBS professors; Dr. Michael Haykin and Dr. Peter Gentry both teach at Southern. Southern and TBS have an informal paternership together and Southern accepts TBS grads into their doctoral programs. Westminster as well accepts TBS grads into their programs.
I am not advocating no legitimate work for a degree. My work was legitimate. I could measure it against another school that I attended, and while it was a different way of studying I took it very seriously. I can assure you that the 26 000 words that were used for my assignments on one course were done so with some sweat and work.
On another note, who sets the standards of academic requirements? Does the accrediting agencies? If so, then you can keep most of your accredited schools, because accrediting agencies affirm all sorts of apostate schools as well as legitimate ones. Most of the denominations are infected with theological modernism because their seminaries are polluted with all sorts of Christ denying and Bible denying apostates. Oh yes, they are academically rigorous, but they are destroying the church.
Quite frankly, I'll stick with Covington any day over many of the schools that are out there. By the way, where did you study? Let us see if your school holds to the test of rigor and reputation.

 

I am going to ignore the first portion of your post; we just disagree. I do not believe that TBS is up to par with Southern. There are a huge number of reasons for this, which I am not going to go into; it is off topic.

Accreditation standards are important. They determine the rigor of the study, not the content. You condemning accreditation because of some schools which teach bad doctrine, would be like me condemning the FDA for people who misuse drugs. The FDA's job is to set safety standards, not take away people's rights to make choices. Same thing with accreditation.

I am not a stickler for accreditation, FYI; I have studied at both accredited and unaccredited schools. I am concerned with rigor, and accreditation can be a useful tool in assuring this...

As I said, I have studied at both accredited and unaccredited schools. I have studied at Nations University (which is currently unaccredited, but who is seeking DETC accreditation), South African Theological Seminary (which is an accredited reformed leaning mildly charismatic school); I did my graduate Greek and Hebrew Studies through New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and completed my M.Div. through Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. Hoping to do a D. Min in expository preaching through Southern, starting sometime in the next couple of years...

 

Yes I believe it is best to agree to disagree on the TBS/Southern issue. I did studies as well with Nations, but found their teaching leaning towards the Church of Christ position on several issues. For basically free, it is a great start for many. Would you know a school that offers languages by correspondence? I would like to further my Greek and Lord willing tackle Hebrew. I trust the Lord will continue to bless you as you serve and study for HIM! Good debating with you.

 

New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary offers distance ed Greek and Hebrew, through the advanced level, though I am not sure about a correspondence format.

 

As a college instructor who has been through two accreditation processes (NCATE and SACS) I want to comment on your statement.

It is wrong to assert that accreditation bodies such as SACS have any control over the doctrinal teachings/positions of any seminary. The accreditation bodies do not concern themselves with these matters. Accreditation standards deal only with the quality of the institution (self-studies, quality enhancement plan, off-site review, on-site review, etc). It is the job of the student to determine the theological quality of an institution.

Schools such as Covington are unaccredited because they do not have the money or resources to complete the work required by a proper accreditation process. Therefore their lack of accreditation does not reflect upon the college's academic quality. Schools such as Covington serve as a real option for those who do not desire/need a regionally accredited degree (for employment purposes).

Martin.