Oh my. VERY sad situation in Florida...

Funny, if scriptures are written for adults, why would those in the temple be questioning Jesus at 12 years old concerning the scriptures? According to Jewish custom, a child was not an adult at 12 years of age.

So, my next door neighbor goes out and robs a bank and kills a police and gets gunned down in the process, because he is only 16 years old... is not responsible?

A 8 year old knows not to steal, but goes into a store and grabs a candy bar or a magazine or a toy and puts it in his pocket anyway. When I worked for Southland Corporation, many years back, we caught many who would look both ways before stealing something. If they did not know it was wrong, they would not look to see if anyone was watching before putting it under their shirt or coat. That one, if he never repents, if he never asks God to forgive him will end up in hell just as the adult who never repented or asked forgiveness. God is not a respector of persons.

Again, if they had never repented of sin, there is no way that the 9 year old, the 13 year olds, or the 15 year olds would be in heaven. Romans 3:23 declares all to be under sin, not just those 20 years and older. And unrepented sin is not overlooked, by God, by Jesus, nor by the Holy Spirit.

Again, only God knows whether they were saved or not.
1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Man's righteousness will not gain him entrance into heaven, nor will a child's righteousness gain him entrance into heaven. All must come through Christ. If they went to church, I certainly pray that they were saved. I do know I went to church from a baby until 16 years old, heard all the stories, and sang all the songs, yet I never repented of my sins. I stole, I lied, I cheated, did drugs from the age of nine years old. I knew it was not right to mess with drugs, yet I did. I knew I was not supposed to smoke, yet I did. And because I knew it was wrong, I tried to hide them. And I did, from my mother, from my pastor, from many people. But they were not hid from God. If I had died at 9, 10, 11... all the way up to 19 when I finally submitted myself to God and asked forgiveness for my sins, if I had died in those years prior to my profession of faith and repentance, I would have ended up in hell just as any man, woman, or child will who knows they are not supposed to do something and does it anyway.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

 

Let's just go through the Bible, verse by verse, and remove every verse that is offensive to us or just doesn't fit our way of thinking how God is. Sins in the child are overlooked, so let's get rid of any verses in the Bible that mention a child sinning, or that has a devil.

Sorry, won't work. God's Word is for ever.

 

Standing, we have argued this around and around before. I am very glad you are not the pastor for this poor family.

I don't throw out any verses. I try to take them in context. I try to let Bible explain Bible. And I know God's mercy is wonderful and great.

 

I have not taken or used scripture out of context. Age of accountability begins once that child knows right from wrong regardless.

And I know God's mercy is wonderful and great also. But I aslo know He is a just God and He will not overlook sin.

BTW, I am not arguing. I am laying out God's Word and God's truth as it is written in His Holy Word

 

I wish the Bible did give an age of accountability. That is wishful thinking, in my opinion. I rfeally think it refers to exactly what age of accountability stands for; whatever age equals comprehension. We become responsible when we can comprehend the simple truth of "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."

Whether these kids are saved or unsaved is mere speculation on anyone's part. To say the scriptures were written for adult ears is pure foolishness. It was written that "ye may know..." including children.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Amen, Jim! on the Bible being for both child and adult.

God's Word declares all to be under sin because of one man's disobedience. Once man realizes His need for a Savior, if man rejects the Lord, he will pay the price; eternal separation from a loving God.

However, it is not just comprehending the gospel and rejecting it that determines sin. As James said 'to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not.' I could use my nephews for instance. If I told Richard it was against the law for anyone to steal, and Richard went out and stole anyway, it would be sin in his life because he knew it was wrong. Many of those who steal, know they are not supposed to else they would not look around for store personnel or cameras before stealing. The commandments of God's Word are engrafted into many of our laws, however, through corrupt people, many of those laws are being rewritten and taken out of our system.

[ January 29, 2006, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]

 

Age of accountability begins once that child knows right from wrong regardless.

That's right. And when a little kid does something, it has nothing to do with right or wrong in and of itself. It has to do with obedience or disobedience to authorities, response to peer pressure, possible rewards, avoiding punishment, etc.

Young teens are exactly the same way.

The knowledge of right and wrong, in and of themselves, does not come until a little later.

You can tell a child 'this is right' or 'this is wrong' and they may believe or disbelieve you, but that does not mean that child actually KNOWS right and wrong -- only what you as the parent say it is.

There's a difference.

 

Hogwash. If a child disobeys, that child is in sin.

Under the Old Testament Mosaic laws, children were to be stoned for disobedience. If the parents allowed the disobedience without the stoning, the parents were to be stoned as well. Why? Because disobedience is sin.

The laws were given to be followed. When one was taught that law, one was expected to obey that law or pay the consequences. Same today. If one is told stealing is wrong, regardless of age, and one steals anyway, one is in sin.

 

One is confusing sin with simple human disobedience; the laws of man or moral codes. Sin is an Adamic inheritance; All have sinned. Hence, some churches suggested infant baptism is dealing with original sin. They go on to suggest that children are free from the condemnation of sin until after confirmation...that happens arond 12-13 years of age..some variations, but the concept remains the same. Nothing, however, in scripture supports that notion.

The best we can do is believe in our own minds that God will not punish children, or certain humans with mental incapacities, until they read that "age of accontability"; not a specific age, but a condition of understanding. Remember, I said this is an idea in our own minds, and not taught specifically by any scripture.

Cheers,

Jim

 

standingfirm,

Hogwash. If a child disobeys, that child is in sin.

That puts a lot of two year olds in hell.

 

Two year olds do not have the understanding of right and wrong. The key is 'to him that knoweth'

 

Taken in its context this passage is written to Christians. It has nothing to do with those who are outside the faith.

The passage itself says nothing about being good, it is talking about doing good, that is Christians are to do good for others, good works if you will accept that term. The Apostle Paul confirms this truth in Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Children being accountable to their parents is a far cry from children being accountable before God.

 

by oldregular:

I ALWAYS pause for a full count of zero-ONE-two-THREE before going, and then step on the pedal very lightly.

Yellow lights always seem to have the effect of making drivers floor the gas.

 

Uou think children don't know right from wrong at age two??? Guess again. They may not have full awareness of all right and all wrong, but they sure know right from wrong if they have been taught correctly...That's why we say "No!" and "Yes!"

We must not allow sentiment for a poor two year old in hell determine what scripture teaches about the wages of sin. On a personal note, I also believe that all children under an age of accountability, mentally incompetent, etc, we see the mercy of God in election. Don't ask me for chapter and verse.


Cheers,

Jim

 

True Jim,

This is why the Bible teaches us train up a child in the way he should go...

The child should be taught from a young age what right and wrong is. And that child once he understands what is right and what is wrong soon learns there are consequences for wrongdoing, physically, and spiritually.

 

I think a key point here that nobody has mentioned (at least I didn't see it) is that one cannot be saved apart from God drawing that person to Himself. Period.

I have five children and I tried my very best to make sure we didn't push any of them into making a profession. My husband and I talked with them often so that they knew in their heads about sin, death, hell, and Christ's sacrifice. That's the planting and watering. Then we waited for GOD to give the increase. Our youngest was probably the oldest one of the children to be saved, at almost 11 years old. She has always been the one who took longer to comprehend things. The youngest was one of the twin boys, he was 8'ish.

The point is, we always tried to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit leading in their lives. Most often, they would come to us when the time was right, when God had been dealing with them.

Julia

 

Standing, a two year old knows that mommy is pleased or displeased. He or she hasn't a CLUE what 'right' and 'wrong' really mean!

 

I ALWAYS pause for a full count of zero-ONE-two-THREE before going, and then step on the pedal very lightly.

Yellow lights always seem to have the effect of making drivers floor the gas. </font>[/QUOTE]O the perversity of human nature?

 

Cute story but it has nothing to do with accountability for sin before God. By the way was it sinful for you to burn your finger through ignorance?