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Spurgeon on Faith and Regeneration

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Rippon, Feb 15, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Faith , again , is not the assurance that Jesus died for me . I sometimes feel myself a little at variance with that verse -- " Just as I am -- without one plea But that thy blood was shed for me . "

    It is eminently suitable for a child of God , but I am not so sure as to its being the precise way for putting the matter for a sinner . I do not believe in Jesus because I am persuaded that his blood was shed for me , but rather I discover that his blood was shed especially for me from the fact that I have been led to believe in him . I fear me there are thousands of people who believe that Jesus died for them , who are not born of God , but rather are hardened in their sin by their groundless hopes of mercy . There is no particular efficacy in a man's assuming that Christ has died for him ; for it is a mere truism , if it be true as some teach , that Jesus died for everybody. On such a theory every believer in a universal atonement would necessarily be born of God , which is very far from being the case . When the Holy Spirit leads us to rely upon the Lord Jesus , then the truth that God gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him might be saved , is opened up to our souls , and we see that for us who are believers , Jesus died with the special intent that we should be saved . For the Holy Spirit to assure us that Jesus shed his blood for us in particular is one thing , but merely to conclude that Jesus died for us on the notion that he died for everybody is as far as the east is from the west , from being real faith in Jesus Christ .
    Neither is it faith for me to be confident that I am saved , for it may be the case that I am not saved , and it can never be faith to believe a lie . Many have concluded rashly that they were saved when they were still in the gall of bitterness . That was not the exhibition of confidence in Christ but the exhibition of a base presumption destructive to the last degree . To come back to where we started from , faith , in a word , is reliance upon Jesus Christ . Whether the Redeemer died in special and particular for me or not , is not the question to be raised in the first place ; I find that he came into the world to save sinners under that general character I come to him , I find that whosoever trusteth him shall be saved , I therefore trust him , and having done so , I learn from from his word that I am the object of his special love , and that I am born of God .
     
    #1 Rippon, Feb 15, 2006
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Hard to disagree with Spurgeon. Would be nice if you would provide a reference.
     
    #2 OldRegular, Feb 15, 2006
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Luk 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
     
    #3 webdog, Feb 15, 2006
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Luk 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." </font>[/QUOTE]Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
     
    #4 OldRegular, Feb 15, 2006
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Moses Hoge ( 1752-1820 ) . The following was cited by Morton Smith in " Studies in Southern Presbyterian Theology " .

    But let it be observed that the first thing required of an unconverted sinner , is not to believe that Christ died for him in a particular sense . No : let him believe the gospel . Let him believe that in himself he is lost and undone -- that there is no salvation but in Christ ... rest in Christ for salvation . And if resting on Christ for salvation in this manner should imply a hope , a persuasion , or belief , that Christ died for him in a peculiar sense ; it will not be a lie , or inconsistent with the most restricted calvinistic sentiments respecting redemption .
     
    #5 Rippon, Feb 16, 2006
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Rolfe Barnard ( 1904-1969 )former associate of JRR . JRR later denounced him as having left the faith . Barnard didn't recite a selection from Calvin's Institutes but based a sermon on the text of John 6 which did not go down well with some leading Fundamentalists of the time ( 1950 ).

    The following was taken from another sermon : " Why we preach the Gospel and Particular Redemption " .

    The knowledge of being the object of God's eternal love , and the knowledge of being the object of Christ's redeeming death ; this knowledge belongs to the assurance of one who has already believed . This knowledge that Christ died for me , that God loves me individually is to be inferred from the fact that one has believed . And it is not to be proposed as a reason why one should believe . These things are just not true . No man can know that God loves him until after he has believed .
     
    #6 Rippon, Feb 17, 2006
  7. Clean1

    Clean1 New Member

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    John 3:16-17, "For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    For God sent not his Son into to condemn the world, but that the WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED."
    Romans 5:6, " For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY." Ungodly in this verse means those who are not saved. How can you think that God only died for those who believe? How do you think the believers got saved in the first place? It was Christ's blood that covered our sins on the cross... he loved us enough to DIE for us. Jesus came out of heaven and down onto earth just for you, me, and everyone else in the world. Take a look at the following verses:

    Romans 5:8-9, " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while WE WERE YET SINNERS, Christ died FOR US.
    Much more then, being now justified by HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
    The wrath is referring to Hell.
    2Cor:5:15: And that he DIED FOR ALL..."
    If Christ didn't love us then He wouldn't have wasted His time in coming down to earth and give His life (he took upon Himself our sin so that we would have a chance of not going to Hell), for a bunch of condemned sinners. If that isn't love I don't know what is. God loves everyone whether they are saved or not and these verses clearly state that.
     
    #7 Clean1, Feb 17, 2006
  8. Clean1

    Clean1 New Member

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    Oh yeah.... and the gospel IS that Christ died for all sinners. You are still a sinner Rippon (if your saved). God never removed that sin nature from you. Why? Because then we would be like robots. But God tells us how to fight that sin nature in the Bible. Satan is incharge of sin and God tells us how to fight it. Just fight back with verses from the Bible.
     
    #8 Clean1, Feb 17, 2006
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The following is from " Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God " by J.I.Packer .

    It is obvious that if a preacher thought that the statement , ' Christ died for every one of you ' , made to any congregation , would be unverifiable , and probably not true , he would take care not to make it in his gospel preaching . You do not find such statements in the sermons of , for instance , George Whitefield or Charles Spurgeon ... For preaching the gospel ... means inviting sinnners to come to Jesus Christ , the living Saviour , who , by virtue of His atoning death , is able to forgive and save all those who put their trust in Him . What has to be said is simply that Christ's death is the ground on which Christ's forgiveness is given ... The fact is that the New Testament never calls on any man to repent on the ground that Christ died specifically and particularly for him . The basis on which the New Testament invites sinners to put faith in Christ is simply that they need Him ... and that those who receive Him are promised all the benefits that His death secured for His people . What is universal and all-inclusive in the New Testament is the invitation to faith , and the promise of salvation to all who believe ...The gospel is , ' believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , who died for sins , ... this is the message which we are to take to the world . ... our job is to point them to the living Christ , and summon them to trust in Him
     
    #9 Rippon, Feb 20, 2006
  10. Clean1

    Clean1 New Member

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    If Christ did not die specifically for YOU then who in the world did he die for? Christ loved YOU enough to die for YOU so that YOU could go to heaven and live with Christ for ever and ever. If the Gospel is not that Christ died for YOU then what is it? What do YOU believe Rippon? I want an honest answer from you and NOT what someone else has written.
    Look at Romans 11:29, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." You can't have what God has promised in the Bible WITHOUT repentance. God promised eternal life, blessings, etc. but without repentance you can't have that. Repentance is you asking Jesus to forgive your sins. What did Jesus do on the cross? He died for YOUR SINS. So without repenting of you sins you can't have eternal life because repentance is a vital part in salvation. You need to ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins... which is repentance.
    2 Peter 3:9, " The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
    "but that all should come to repentance" means that ALL should confess their sins and ask Jesus to forgive them.
     
    #10 Clean1, Feb 20, 2006
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Sermon: Faith And Regeneration

    Yes,an oldie but goodie here by the Prince of preachers --Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

    This extract could very well have been called False Faith. So many are not showing a real understanding of what constitutes real faith. Just believing that Christ died for everyone (which is already a false premise) -- I am somebody -- His death includes me -- is not saving faith.

    Read the whole piece before launching any attacks. Get specific about what you disagree with.

    Thanks.
     
    #11 Rippon, Apr 6, 2011
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello clean1,
    I think you have not understood the romans 5 passage.Let me show why,
    No....it actually is speaking of the ungodly who are now saved
    The sheep believe because Jesus died for them....and them only. jn 10:26-27

    clean1- romans 5 is dealing with the saved, that is those who are justified.let me quote the passage and bold the key parts of the section;
    clean1- can you see how the passage is speaking of the saved? being justified, having the Spirit,....see how it says ..we, us.....not everyone.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Apr 7, 2011
  13. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks icon, what you wrote really showed me something I had not seen.

    6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

    These verses speak to no one but believers. Quite the eye opener.

    It is equally amazing how the Apostle moves from particular redemption here to generally speaking concerning the redemption which is in Christ as the federal head of His race.
     
    #13 ReformedBaptist, Apr 7, 2011
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    clean1, Romans 11:29 has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    When Paul wrote, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance," he was simply saying that God does not take back his gifts or his calling. He is writing in context of God's dealing with the Jews, but the application is universal.

    the passage is not referring to our repentance, it's referring to God's repentance.
     
    #14 Tom Butler, Apr 8, 2011
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Gods word is exciting....We can and should be ever learning about so great a salvation. Yes the Holy Spirit has Paul paint a masterpiece of God's covenant love; Romans is a solid fortress of grace and truth for the people of God.
     
    #15 Iconoclast, Apr 8, 2011
  16. Servent

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    Christ did not go to the cross for any of us. He went to the cross for his Father. His Father required a sacrafice for sin, He was that sacrafice, and because the Father Loved us when we believe that and trust in Him we are covered by the blood of Christ, Then when the Father looks on us He does not see our sin, but the blood of his Son.
     
    #16 Servent, Apr 8, 2011
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jesus goes to the cross for the elect sheep given to Him by the Father.
    He pays their sins in full, no more no less
     
    #17 Iconoclast, Apr 8, 2011
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