"putting out a fleece"

* different time, different place - no indwelt Holy Spirit

* we live by faith, not by what God does or does not do. We need to be in His Word and in communion with Him, bunches - that is how His will is made known to us - that and how He arranges things in our lives. Too many time we are in a big fat hurry, instead of waiting on and for God just my opinion of course

 

Gideon lived by faith---same as we do today----however---the "fleece throwing" is a whole different ball game. We've got to ask ourselves the question----why was Gideon throwing the fleece?? God had already told him what to do and where to go and what was gonna happen---all God was asking Gideon to do was what He asks us to do today---and that is simply to take Him at His word---in which Gideon didn't do---thus the fleece throwing. Fleece throwing is for those who are doubting God with weak faith! Faith in the word of God---moves us beyond the "beyond a shadow of a doubt"----Gideon didn't need the fleece to remove the doubt---he needed to simply move by faith believing & taking God "at His word"

What Gideon did in throwing the fleece---was a dangerous thing to do----and we still do it today, don't we!! We throw fleece all the time, don't we?? God doubters throw fleeces! Those who take God at His word don't need lamb's wool when they are living in God's word!!!

 

Gideons fleece was a lack of faith is what God had already said to him.

 

oops - I think we all need a refresher course - read judges 6. It never talks about Gideon's faith. Have we misjudged him?

 

A careful examination of Hebrews 11:32 will settle that matter!

 

A careful examination of Hebrews 11:32 will settle that matter! </font>[/QUOTE]I forgot he was a "hall of famer"

 

I rather think that God was pleased that Gideon put out the fleeces. God delights in proving Himself.

 

Ok, So God told him to do it.. but what do you do when you are not for sure it is God telling you.

Hypothetical....two churches contact you to be their pastor, how do you choose which one?

Where do you draw the line between God telling you and your feelings?

Is there a case for fleece throwing here?

 

Well, Tinytim, in such a case I believe God will make His will known either from the Scriptures or circumstances. Our responsibility there would be to make sure there is 'nothing between (our) soul and the Savior, so that his blessed face may be seen' to quote the old hymn.

Ferinstance, when I felt God might be calling me to the mission field, I asked Him to give me some scripture to show me His will. That same day, He led me to Acts 2:39- 'For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'

I don't think there is anything wrong with fleeces- I think it is just a part of honestly praying that God's will might be revealed and done. We are commanded plainly in the Bible to 'ask, and ye shall receive; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.'

Some would criticize Gideon for being a doubter, but then again we see Thomas in the NT, who doubted the very resurrection of our Lord. Jesus appeared to Him and chastized him only mildly.

Psalm 103:13,14- Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

 

h m m m ......... if the NT showed us "fleeces" I would be much more agreeable. What I see is faith in every instance, not "proof".

I also see that God led the disciples/apostles clearly and without error. I wonder sometimes if we place too much importance on "missing" God. If we are truly His child - and are one with Him, and He has made His home in us - then why do we doubt that He can lead us where He wants us to go?

Wait on the Lord . . .

 

Jesus condemned seeking a sign, but the N T teaches walking by faith not by sight. God told Gideon, and Gideon sought a sign. When God clearly tells us what to do as He did with Gideon, we have all we need to get busy obeying. His word.
NO where does the bible teach us to do this.

 

well, I am not sure Jesus "condemned" seeking a sign. He did for the Pharisees because their hearts were hardened against Him, but in Mark 16, Jesus said that signs and wonders would follow the disciples comfirming the Word [Gospel]. And, Jesus did signs and wonders so that the people would know that He was the Messiah - this was prophesied - which is why He healed, cast out demons, and did miracles.

Also, Paul referred to tongues as a sign to unbelievers - the ability to preach in a language unknown to the speaker, so that the hearers would be able to understand the Gospel.

As far as Gideon goes, I do not see that God judged him for putting out the fleece. I believe that God might have rather enjoyed his insistence, in my opinion As God had warned Israel from the beginning to watch for false prophecy and false Words from God - I think Gideon was just being extremely careful. Once the "fleecing" was done, Gideon moved forward in full faith and assurance. There was never another moment when he questioned God's Word to him.

I just like the whole story, myself. I think it's cool

 

I think at times we are too hard on Gideon for the fleece.

If I were called to do what Gideon had to do, I would want to be pretty sure it was the Lord's doing as well.

Judges 6 tells us the Spirit of God was upon him, and as mentioned he shows up in Hebrews 11. Not too shabby if ya ask me.

I am not sure if I have ever specifically asked the Lord for a fleece. Althougth I have asked Him to confirm things in my life that I felt He was doing. I am not really sure what the difference is, so maybe I have asked for a fleece.

 

TaterTot said:

We know the story of Gideon and he did this to discern God's will.

No he didn't. Gideon already knew God's will; he had been given a direct command by an angel (Judg. 6:13-16). Indeed, when he proposed the fleece, he even acknowledged that God had already told him what to do: "Then Gideon said to God, 'If you will save Israel by my hand, as you have said'" (Judg. 6:36, emphasis added).

Nonetheless, already knowing God's will, Gideon demanded an additional supernatural sign (6:37) - and when that didn't give him the result he wanted, he asked for another one (6:39). Even after that, he still lacked any sort of resolve and had to be shown that the Midianites already feared him before he could muster up enough courage to go against them (7:9-15).

The story of Gideon's fleece isn't about discerning God's will. If anything, it is about God's grace: he uses even his weakest people to accomplish his purposes, and has the patience to put up with their doubts.

 

Yes, God is full of grace and does indeed use the weakest people to accomplish His purposes. He is also patient and merciful. All of Scripture proves His faithfulness beyond human reasoning.

I don't think I would be as hard on Gideon as you appear to be. He truly loved God and wanted to do His will. He was facing tremendous danger - I don't think one of us would have been so brave as to not question how God would use us in the same circumstances. Perhaps God allowed Gideon to do what he needed to do to "gather himself". It is obvious from that point on, Gideon never questioned God again.

 

eloidalmanutha said:

He truly loved God and wanted to do His will.

My point wasn't that Gideon didn't want to do God's will. It was that he didn't use the fleece to discern God's will, but to avoid it.

 

"A man in our church recently told me that he has done a similar thing. He would know that God wanted him to join our church if we sang a certain hymn. (This makes me nervous, as I choose the hymns.) We sang it and down the aisle he came. It was very meaningful to him, but kinda made me go "hmmm"."

Why go hummm at God including you as part of doing something pretty special in another person's life - hummm.

 

h m m - I don't see that at all. If you look at both chapters 6 & 7, there is no way that Gideon can possibly be perceived as weak, doubting, or wanting to avoid God's will. He was a warrior, called that by God from the first, "enclothed" with God, and later was God's victor with 300 men against an entire army. There has to be another way to look at this how this came down. It looks "covenantal" to me, but that is just my little old opinion