"putting out a fleece"

I know you are going to blast me for this, but satan can arrange things to confirm a situation as well. What this guy did was NOT put out a fleece - it was a deal he made with God - talk about red flags. If God wants someone to join a church there has GOT to be more than just a hymn being played - get real, please

 

I am assuming that someone pointed out his error and nicely of course?

 

I know you are going to blast me for this, but satan can arrange things to confirm a situation as well. What this guy did was NOT put out a fleece - it was a deal he made with God - talk about red flags. If God wants someone to join a church there has GOT to be more than just a hymn being played - get real, please </font>[/QUOTE]Isn't asking for a sign the same as putting out a fleece? If not what is the difference? I always thought they were the same.

 

Why seek after a sign? Why lay a fleece before the Lord?

God's Word tells us we walk by faith, not by sight.

 

SFIC, would you say seeking a sign is the same as putting out a fleece?

So if one was against one of those, wouldn't it stand to reason they would be against both?

 

I made a note of this in another post on this thread. I do not believe that Gideon was asking for a sign as confirmation. He already knew it was God's will and directive to him. I think we need to dig a little deeper. It looks like a covenantal agreement taking place, not "asking for a sign". The entire context of Judges 6 & 7 is an extremely strong passage that suggests something very significant.

 

eloidalmanutha said:

If you look at both chapters 6 & 7, there is no way that Gideon can possibly be perceived as weak, doubting, or wanting to avoid God's will.

It appears that you are reading a different story than me, then.

 

God did not see him as weak, questioning, or doubting. This was the first thing the Angel of the Lord said to Gideon:

Judges 6:11 ¶ And the Angel of Jehovah came and sat under the oak which is in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite. And his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the winepress, to hide it from the eyes of Midian.
12 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him, and said to him, Jehovah is with you, mighty warrior .
13 And Gideon said to Him, Oh my Lord, if Jehovah is with us, then why has all this happened to us? And where are all His wonders which our fathers recounted to us, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up out of Egypt? And now Jehovah has left us, and has given us into the hands of Midian.
14 And Jehovah turned to him and said, Go in this strength of yours, and you shall deliver Israel out of the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?
15 And he said to Him, Oh my Lord, with what shall I deliver Israel? Behold, my family is the weakest in Manasseh, and I the least in my father's house.
16 And Jehovah said to him, Because I am with you, you shall strike Midian as one man.
17 And he said to Him, Please, if I have found grace in Your eyes, then You shall do for me a sign that You are speaking with me.


I just don't get that Gideon was in doubt. He was asking for confirmation from God that God was going to use him and lead him to defeat the enemy. It was an agreement or covenant in which God and Gideon entered into. Why?

Judges 6:18 Please do not move from here until I come to You and bring my food offering and lay it before You. And He said, I will stay until you come back.
19 And Gideon went in and prepared a kid of the goats, and unleavened bread of an ephah of flour. He put the flesh in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot. And he brought it out to Him, under the oak, and offered it.
20 And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, Take the flesh and the unleavened bread and place them on this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.
21 And the Angel of Jehovah put forth the end of the staff in His hand and touched the flesh and the unleavened bread. And the fire rose up out of the rock and burned up the flesh and the unleavened bread. And the Angel of Jehovah went out of his sight.
22 And Gideon saw that He was the Angel of Jehovah. And Gideon said, Alas, Lord Jehovah! Because I have seen the Angel of Jehovah face to face!
23 And Jehovah said to him, Peace to you, fear not. You shall not die.
24 And Gideon built an altar to Jehovah there, and called it Peace of Jehovah. It is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites until today.

That is covenant stuff if I ever saw it
then:

Judges 6:25 ¶ And it happened on that night, Jehovah said to him, Take your father's bull, and the second bull of seven years; and you shall throw down the altar of Baal which belongs to your father, and you shall cut down the pillar beside it.
26 And you shall build an altar to Jehovah your God on the top of this stronghold, in an orderly way, and shall take the second bull and offer a burnt offering with the wood of the pillar which you have cut down.
27 And Gideon took ten men from his servants and did as Jehovah had spoken to him. And it happened, since he feared his father's house and the men of the city, to do it by day, that he did it by night.
28 And the men of the city rose early in the morning. And, behold, the altar of Baal had been smashed, and the pillar beside it had been cut down. And the second bull had been offered on the altar which was built.
29 And they each said to his neighbor, Who has done this thing? And they asked and sought. And they said, Gideon the son of Joash has done this thing.
30 And the men of the city said to Joash, Bring out your son, and he shall die, because he has broken down the altar of Baal, and because he has cut down the pillar beside it.
31 And Joash said to all that stood against him, You, will you contend for Baal? Or you, will you save him? He who contends for him shall be killed by the morning. If he is a god, let him contend for himself, because one has smashed his altar.
32 And on that day he called him Jerubbaal, saying, Let Baal contend against him, because he has smashed his altar.
33 ¶ And all Midian and Amalek, and the sons of the east, were gathered together, and crossed over, and camped in the valley of Jezreel.
34 And the Spirit of Jehovah clothed Gideon with Himself, and he blew with a ram's horn. And the Abiezrites were called after him.

This is SO COOL and you are missing it - this an agreement between God and Gideon. Where do we get that Gideon was doubting God???

might as well get the full load

Judges 6:35 And he sent messengers to all Manasseh, and it also was called after him. And he sent messengers to Asher and Zebulun, and to Naphtali. And they came up to meet them.
36 And Gideon said to God, If You are to deliver Israel by my hand, as You have spoken,
37 behold, I am placing the fleece of wool on the grain floor; if the dew is on the fleece only, and dryness on all the ground, then I will know that You will deliver Israel by my hand, as You have spoken.
38 And it was so. And he rose early on the next day and wrung the fleece, and drained dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.
39 And Gideon said to God, Let not Your anger glow against me, and I shall speak only this time. Please let me try only this time with the fleece; please let there be dryness on the fleece alone; and let there be dew on all the ground.
40 And God did so on that night, and there was dryness only on the fleece, and there was dew on all the ground.

Judges 7
1 ¶ And Jerubbaal (he is Gideon) rose early, and all the people with him. And they camped by the spring of Harod, and the army of Midian was north of him on Mount Moreh, in the valley.
2 And Jehovah said to Gideon, The people with you are too many for Me to give Midian into their hands, that Israel not glorify itself against Me, saying, My hand has delivered me.
3 And now then, cry in the ears of the people, saying, Whoever is fearful and trembling, let him return and leave Mount Gilead. And twenty two thousand of the people returned. And ten thousand were left.
4 And Jehovah said to Gideon, The people are still too many. Bring them down to the water, and I will refine them for you there. And it shall be, he of whom I say to you, this one shall go with you, he shall go with you. And any of whom I shall say to you, This one shall not go with you, he shall not go.
5 And he brought the people down to the water. And Jehovah said to Gideon, Everyone who laps of the water with his tongue, as a dog laps, you shall set him apart. And everyone who bows on his knees to drink, set apart.
6 And the number of those lapping with their hand to their mouth was three hundred men. And all the rest of the people bowed down on their knees to drink water.
7 And Jehovah said to Gideon, I will deliver you by the three hundred men who lapped, and shall give Midian into your hand. And all the people shall go, each to his place.
8 And the people took the food in their hand, and their rams' horns; and he sent away every man of Israel, each to his tent. But he kept hold on the three hundred men. And the camp of Midian was below him in the valley.
9 ¶ And it happened on that night, Jehovah said to him, Rise up, go down to the camp, for I have given it into your hand.


Well, I hope you see it - cause I think the whole story is awesome and so God ordained. They had a meeting - God and Gideon. What you have is a WARRIOR who is SO BOLD that He approaches God and asks for a sign to confirm His Word. Not out of doubt, but as a man of God who KNEW that God would be victorious. I just love it. And all these years I was taught that Gideon was a doubter and had to "fleece" God

 

I invite you to judge this" putting out the fleece story". On a visit to a nondenominational church the Holy Spirit directed me to witness to a man, about four rows ahead, who I had never met and in fact had never seen his face before. I hesitated, I prayed, I was very concerned that it was my mind not God speaking to me. Finally I asked God, if this directive is from your Holy Spirit please have the people in front(who were kneeling at the altar) stand up as proof that this is of you and not me. Immediately the pastor steped forward and said," folks I know this is highly irregular but I would like to ask you to all stand up." They did, and I witnessed to the man and he totally rejected my message. So what do you think of this example of "putting out the fleece"

 

I don't get it . . . you had to ask God to confirm whether or not to witness to someone

Secondly, this is NOT putting out a fleece. It's called tempting God - which is a no-no.

No wonder Jesus asked if He would find faith on the earth when He returned.