John Richard Rice

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't Calvinism teach that God will save who He wants to save, regardless of what we do or don't do? If that is the case then I can see how preaching, missionary work, etc. would simply be trying to give God some help He doesn't need or want. Can you explain why this is not the case?

 

Wow! Dreamed last of seeing my grandmother and giving her a hug and kiss. Now went through and re-read this old tread. Did all this stir up some memories for the day! Sorry for the interuption.

 

lbaker,

I have corrected your misunderstanding in other posts. Rather than correct it again, I am going to ask you to prove your claim from the writings of prominant Calvinists.

RB

 

"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin

This sure sounds like God picks them regardless of behavior.

Um, actually you kind of bailed out before really explaining what I saw as conflicting statements:

RB here: Not in the way you mean it. lol Does election make certain the salvation of some? Absolutely. Will they be saved regardless of what they do? NO.

 

Although I didn't have to opportunity personally to meet John R. Rice prior to his death in 1980, having lived not too far from Murfreesboro, TN , I was thankful for the times that I was able to participate in activities that were somehow related to him or his family: Things that I'm sure he would have approved.

Often were the times we would attend activities at his home church, Franklin Road BC. Some were related to the Christian schools that were connected w/ the TN Assn of Christian Schools (TACS), and others were just to hear great preachers.

Once you turn off Interstate 24 to get on to Franklin Road, you'll cross over John Rice Blvd. I told one of the sales persons at the Sword of the Lord Bookstore that, except for maybe Jesus Christ Himself, I couldn't think of a better name for a street than that!

I've purchased books by JRR. As a previous post mentioned, his book on the Home is a classic. And I haven't found a better book on the Charismatic Movement than his.

I appreciate the ongoing works that his descendants have carried out, be it in writing, in music, or (as in the case of my BB friend JoJ) missions work.

Now, does that mean I agree with every single aspect of JRR's theology? No, I don't! [I don't even agree with every single aspect of my own pastor's theology either, BTW.] But that doesn't keep me from respecting the great work that JRR has done and the legacy that he has bequeathed to not only his own family, but also to the entire family of God.

I don't prefer to call myself a Calvinist for various reasons--not the least of which are how he viewed baptism. I do, however, firmly believe that it was God, not me, who took the initiative in saving and keeping me.

This I believe is the same outlook that the Apostle Paul had. It was the Apostle Paul who, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote much about predestination and election and eternal security. Yet it was this same Apostle Paul who (next to Christ Himself) I believe was the greatest missionary in the NT era, if not of all times.

Rightly understood and applied, it is the doctrines of grace that should not only motivate us to go out and reach people for the Gospel, but also it is these same doctrines that will guarantee success in God's eyes for our missionary work.

Now, I know that both ends of the soteriological spectrum (as well as all points in between) have been misunderstood, slandered, maligned, and reviled by all sorts of people. I pray that I will never be one of them.

John R. Rice is just as much my deceased brother in Christ as are John Gill, and Charles H. Spurgeon (whom both C and A people will quote!).

I'm looking forward to meeting them all at the feet of Jesus.

And I'm positive that He will have to spend a lot of time correcting me for what my own theology has been too!

 

I love it one someone speaks the Word of God and its eternal truths in such a way that it causes some spue when they finally chew on the real meat of the Word of God insteal of peice-meal soup that is normally brought to their table.

Praise God for men like John R. Rice!
He wasn't perfect (as I'm sure he would most definately agree) but he was a great man of God!

 

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It may be true that Reformed/Calvinists, etc. are evangelistic. I think the point is that if God has already chosen the elect and the elect are "locked in" regardless and through no merit or action of their own, there should be no need to evangelize as God made His choice no matter what they do or don't do. Also, what a cruel joke to evangelize and urge repentence, etc. on the unelect who cannot be saved.

 

But neither Jesus, nor God, nor the Apostles, said the purpose of evangelization is for the eternal salvation of mankind. Man is the one who said that is the purpose. The purpose of evangelization is to teach , not save, and to baptize those who, having been taught, profess to have been among those who have a hope in Christ.

And who knows who are the unelect, and who are the elect ? Not even Paul knows who they are. Nor Peter. Jesus certainly knew who they are, after all, He has their names written down in His book of Life In your case, for example, given your obvious leaning towards the "whosoever" kind of preaching, are you sure that the person who walks down the aisle during your "invitation", cries rivers of tears at the "counselling" room, and testifies every Saturday night or whatever night you call for testimonies, really "saved" ?

And are you sure that those who seemed to want to come, gripped the handrails so tight their knucles turned white, yet turned away at the end of the invitation, of the "unelect" and will remain "unelect" and damned ? Are they going to be saved because of anyone's preaching, yours or your pastor's, or that wonderfully eloquent evangelist ?

The Bible says only "God knows His works from the very beginning", and Jesus says "I know my sheep, and they know me". Only God and Jesus knows who His sheep are, and the job of an evangelist is to get to as many points of the earth as He can and proclaim a finished work of salvation, not a possible and continously ongoing one as the "whosoevers" are wont to do.

And yet so many of these whosoevers I've met and associated with are quick to ridicule the Christ of the Catholics as having never gone down the cross, forgetting that the Christ they preach continually gets crucified and resurrected everytime somebody says they got "saved".

Christ's finished work is done and there is no more redemption that is being undertaken. The task at hand, during the time at Mt. Olivet and now, is to reach as many as limited mortals can in spreading the word of a finished redemption which is intended for God's people, and to them only.