John Richard Rice

The I admire your passion Pinoy, your view (Primitive Baptist's) of eternal salvation is not orthodox nor do I believe biblical in any fashion.

One is not saved apart from faith and scripture is resolute on that issue. There is no seperation in scripture between eternal salvation (for not only those that believe but also even for those who might hate God and deny Christ) and temporal salvation (being for those who believe in 'this' life - I still don't understand that). You would state that all the elect are already saved (eternally) irregardless of faith.

If I understand your beliefs, is not your own salvation even in question until God says actaully welcomes you home (so to speak)?
IOW - You can't know if you are truly saved - even if you believe and walk accordingly.

 

Allan, I'm a little puzzled by the last quote in your signature. What does it mean? That God does not judge our sin?

 

I would echo all three of these sentiments

 

No. It speaks to saying that goes something like - yeah I'm a sinner but God knows my heart, or I messed up but God knows my heart, ect... ' . It refers to the misunderstanding that God sees your heart in the same manner you do and thus your 'real' intentions, then you wont be judged, which is bubkus!

Thus .. For God to know and judge us by our heart (alone and not our actions as well still ) leaves us with no hope at all.

 

What I don't understand is "why" since it won't make any difference, other than to give the unelect a false hope.

 

Les here: So why the need to evangelize? If it is already settled and nothing we can do makes any difference, why do anything? I know you say God says to evangelize, but why should we care what He says if our fate is already decided and cannot and will not be changed? It seems like you want to behave as if what we do makes all the difference in the world while at the same time saying what we do makes absolutely no difference.

 

I have no wish to be admired, Allan. By you, nor by anyone, and I say that with no disrespect. I believe promotion comes neither from the west, nor the east, but from the Lord, and if at the end of this worthless life standing before Him He waves me away as one of those whom He has never known, what can I say ?

Yes, what we Primitive Baptists believe about eternal salvation is not mainstream. It ceased to be mainstream when Baptists got so enamored with numbers and copied the Protestant method of "soul winning" and missionism.

But Christ's preaching about God and about Himself was unorthodox, too, and for that He was crucified, and those who followed after His footsteps were equally and even more persecuted.

Whether you believe it is Biblical in any fashion is unimportant to me. In my heart of hearts I know that what I believe hews closest to the Scriptures and most faithfully to who Christ is than what you call mainstream Christianity.

Think deeply about this, Allan. With this statement, you have condemned to eternal damnation more or less four thousand years of souls that have existed on this earth outside Biblical lands before the cross, and even during the time of Christ here on earth.
Because next you will say that "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God", and will then be putting the eternal fate of sinners in the ability of men to cross seas and climb mountains, to brave perils and explore continents, and bring the gospel to them so they can put faith in Christ and thus be saved from the wrath of God, instead of the all-encompassing, sure, and secure work of the Son of God in behalf of His people.

With that statement you have, in effect, said that no redemption has ever occurred until the gospel was sent out, and the suffering, death, resurrection, and blood which Christ went through and shed, means nothing without the added ingredient of faith in the hearer.

I have dealt with this issue, and have tried to explain it many times in many threads, it is a tiresome one for me now.

I declare as Paul declares "I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day" (2 Timothy 1:12), and trust that I am one of His own, as His spirit beareth witness with my spirit, that I have a hope in heaven, a living hope and not a dead one, and that the God I know is a merciful God.

But with regards others ?

I don't know, I do not have their spirit, and do not have their hearts, and I was not present when the great Three in One covenanted to save sinners, neither was I there when God called each of His own sheep by name in eternity past to write their names in His mind and heart, His book of Life.

Therefore I have ceased and never again, will have the boldness to declare who is saved and who is not, as many on this board do, on the basis of their theology, or their creed, or absence of it, because I know that there is not one Scripture I can point to, nor anyone can point to, that will even hint that Christ hang on that dreadful cross that God-forsaken day for anyone's theology, creed, race, tongue, or religion.

 

Thanks! I heartily agree.

 

The gospel is not intended for the unelect, never was. Neither was the blood of Christ shed for them, nor was the Scripture written and preserved for all humanity, but only for God's people, Jew and Gentile.

Therefore, if the hearing of the gospel overjoys anyone, then the good news was meant for him, and if Christ died for that sheep, then why would I worry about the goat, am I better than my Master ?

 

Now that is an honest answer. Thanks.

I just have a hard (impossible?) time believing the Father, as revealed by Jesus, would willfully create people with the premeditated intention of torturing them eternally, regardless of their attitude toward Him.

That is mainly what prevents me from accepting Calvinism.

 

Now that's a disciplined man.

God bless, Brother John.

 

That was a blessing. Thanks for posting this! :godisgood::jesus:

 

You're entirely welcome. Glad you were blessed! :wavey: