WOMEN PREACHERS

This world is "patterned" after the "Spiritual".

The "MOON" (Church) get it's "light" from the "SUN" (Jesus, spirit light of the world) and reflect it to a world in "darkness".

God planted a "Seed" for Spiritual bread, man plants seed for "natural bread".

The seven day week is God's plan for the earth, Six days of work, another day of rest, or Mill reign.

Jesus is "head" of his "bride" the church, man is head of his bride.

The "list is "long", but here's the point.

The church being the "BRIDE" is the "woman" in this parable, and the woman responsibilities is to "produce children" (new converts) raise up/teach them.

The "truth" manifested in the world tells us that a "Woman/Woman" can't produce children, it requires a "MAN/WOMAN".

Remember the parable of the woman who had seven husbands, all died??

Mt 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Mt 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Being made "SONS OF GOD", make us "Brother to Jesus", and like the parable, "OUR BROTHER" has died and went to Heaven, leaving us with the responsibility to "marry his BRIDE" and "raise up children to him".

The "pattern" of this world forbids a woman/woman from producing children, and being patterened after the spiritual, neither can a woman (pastor) and the "bride of Christ" produce children either.

This is why only "MEN" are called to pastor, only a man with the "Spirit" (Sperm) can get the "WOMAN" (church) pregnant to produce children.


Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, (in the physical world)

 

Axioms:
1. It is unbiblical for a woman to pastor or preach.
2. God does things and says things for good reasons and purposes.

Question:
What is the reason? </font>[/QUOTE]Third try:
I am not looking for reasons like "Because God says so" or "woman was created first." Those are negative, punitive reasons. I want to know WHY God made this pronouncement - in the sense of why does that work better, or is better for us, than if either gender could pastor/preach, etc. It certainly has nothing to do with talent or ability. So what is it?

 

I think Satan played on more than just Eve. Adam had a choice here. He could have chosen to lead in this situation and refused the fruit. Remember, Adam had been around longer than Eve and certainly had more experience with what God required.

Adam failed to lead, and a good many men still fail to lead, or they lead in the wrong direction.

I'm with Scarlett, a better conversation would be, what men should be doing instead of just what women shouldn't be doing.

 

I had also written:

We men should take and bear the responsibility but we don't. I think we have inherited Adam's disposition.

not sure if you saw that.

Adam consciously eating of the fruit was a type of Christ, willfully laying down his life for his bride. He didn't eat being deceived thinking he would be as gods.

Now, all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. And again, men bear the ignominy.
Let's discuss what men should be doing, I'm all for it.
Number one in the context, let's love our wives as Christ loved the church. Well, he layed down his life for her. That's a pretty high standard.

 

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;STANDING OVATION FOR SISTER SCARLETT!!!&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

woohooo!! You go girl! I've only read up to your post here, and had to say that!

 

I suspect Adam loved Eve so much, that he chose her over God, knowing their relationship could no longer exist with Eve in her fallen state. If he wanted her, he would have to eat as she did.

I couldn't agree more. Especially regarding the wrong direction.

 

That's quite romantic IveyLeaguer, but I can't find any scriptural basis for it.

Might make for an interesting hypothetical conversation though. What would God have done with Woman if Adam hadn't eaten too?

 

I agree.

 

My dear Scarlett,

Hopefully, you know I did not call you an evil feminist or even a feminist. With one exception, which had nothing to do with theology, I've never attacked anyone about anything and since you are one of my favorites and I so enjoy your posts .. , I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

As I see it feminism is a philosophy (woman --&gt; does NOT = feminist) and has little or nothing to do with equal rights, justice, and absolutely nothing to do with equal standing under God. Please keep that in mind because it is absolutely integral to everything I am saying. A man is not superior to a woman, just equipped differently, which is what I had in mind when I said, "a mature, godly woman takes a back seat to NOBODY, regardless of what her role may be."

But you misunderstand, Scarlett darling (apologize, couldn't resist, Gone With The Wind is my favorite movie ). In fact I think the exact opposite, as I'll explain below. And I disagree about women having their fair share of the blame ... I think men are responsible for it all, and when the books are opened it will be men either 1) losing reward, if saved, or 2) receiving greater punishment, if unsaved. With the greater authority comes the greater responsibility.

Yes, I would agree with those.

I think men should love their wives as Jesus Christ loves His church, as revealed in the Scriptures, and act accordingly. Otherwise, when exercising biblical authority outside of marriage it should be done in a godly way. Women, and men, should look to God, repent, ask His help in ejecting cultural, worldly influences that we have given permission to dominate us, and be constantly on guard for these influences that God has warned us to have nothing to do with - exactly as He has made clear from Genesis to Revelation. I believe that would do it.

I didn't imply that but I would technically agree, though there's much more to it. Feminism is but one of several hundred philosophies that make up our present culture, but it's predominant nature cannot be ignored in much of the Western world. I realize it is unpopular to use the term 'evil' these days but I am sold out to calling things what they are (given a great degree of certainty), especially evil, just as our Lord did. We can use 'ungodly', which is softer, or 'unbiblical' or 'wrong' which is softer still - but I don't see the point when talking to other Christians, since we're not trying to please the world.

I'm not sure what you mean by feminism's "wise form" but I suspect we are not far apart on that, mostly terminology. But though I'm open to the idea, I see nothing wise about feminism.

Feminism is either partly or largely responsible for the proliferation of such things as the destruction of the family, homosexuality, abortion - to name just a few of the major ones. There are many minor products of it - for example, the 'nerdization' of at least two generations of men. In describing a key entity responsible for those things, far from being harsh, I think 'evil' is the appropriate word.

Feminism appeals directly to human pride, and both men and women are affected by it. For example, that's where the "entitlement and condescension" element comes from - pride - and as a man that's the battle I had and the temptation I constantly watch for. I didn't have it bad, but Satan is very fond of using it and it can come, and usually does, from nothing more than reading Genesis. It precedes feminism of course, by thousands of years, but feminization has exacerbated it greatly, making it much worse of a problem. Listening to you ladies, it must be much worse than I realize (I've avoided threads on this subject until this one).

Much more than our fair share. The evangelical church is into full-blown apostasy and few in the church are even aware of it. The leaven from which this apostasy arose can be traced back some 200 years but was symptomatic in the early 20th century and has exploded in growth the past 25 years. Sure, Satan has been and IS NOW working harder than ever to destroy the church, God is sovereign over all, and everything is right on schedule. But I can't think of a woman who bears any responsibility for it - Jesus gave the leadership of His church, and its inherent responsibility, to men.

So, the culprit of the friction you have been talking about in this thread is .. pride, both within and without feminism. Nothing is really new under the sun.

Deeper still, feminism has, at its core, a bold and direct defiance of Jesus Christ. It says, "I dont care how you made me or what you intended or made me for I will do and be what I want to be and live the way I want to live." That's why I doubt many regenerate women are actually 'real' feminists, though they think they are.

Though the similarity ends there, this core-level defiance is virtually the same as the defiance of homosexuality, as homosexuality says, similarly, "I dont care how you made me or what you intended ....". NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING the two are remotely the same, except to the extent they share that core characteristic.

Finally, like most evil influences, feminism comes well disguised, and that's why I previously said "Since there is no choice but to interact with feminized culture I greatly empathize with Christian women today." I would hope that for most people that is a chilling thought, and I pray for everyone to consider the danger and "take stock under God" as Oswald Chambers would say. Time is short.

[Please excuse my straightforward 'tone of warning'. That is the work the Lord has called me to do, and I don't have the luxury of mincing words, as these are life and death matters.]

These are perilous times and the simple message, I believe, for all of us right now, myself first, is the same and will often apply across the board to other issues: Repent, look to God, confess, walk in the light, watch (for ungodly and unbiblical influences, deceptions of every kind, and for the Lord Himself) and pray, and watch and pray, and watch and pray ....

God Bless.

 

Scarlett, my friend,

yours is indeed the "wise" form of feminism. Maybe you should call yourself a "ladies advocate", as the term feminist has become so intertwined with the "femi-nazi" attitude here in America.

So you are what Id call a Conservative Feminist! So am I!

 

Scarlett, if that's what you call a feminist, then count me one as well.

 

absolutely!

 

Scarlett, I'm curious. Your description of feminism has nothing in common with the ungodly feminism I described at length in the earlier post. By your standard, which seems perfectly biblical, most everyone here would consider themselves feminists.

Since the whole of western civilization understands feminism to be the unbiblical kind associated with all sorts of abominations (abortion is their #1 issue), why do you associate yourself with them by using their name?

 

I see IveyLeaguer's point, Scarlett. I don't think what you've described is feminism as the world usually uses that word -- what you described is the idea of treating women as human beings equal in worth to men, and advocating that they not be abused or taken advantage of.

But feminism as it started in the 70's and as the world understands it goes way beyond this, though often femimnists try to downplay it and make it sound like it's just a matter of treating women humanely. When you get down to it, though, they are pro-abortion and support other things such as gay rights.

The problem is with how one defines "feminism."

 

The term may be benign but it is a politically charged term in our culture. I would never, for example, tell an unsaved woman that I was a feminist without making it clear what I mean by that.

Scarlett, I'm curious, were you old enough in the 70's to remember the rise of feminism in this culture and what it entailed?