Who else believes this

Genesis12: Perhaps a particular sin troubles the individual and he thinks that reformation and forgiveness in connection with that offence may be enough. It's by no means enough! The command is that he must stop all sinning, sins of life, sins of heart, sins of thought. "Let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts" Isa.55:7. "Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit!" Ez.18:31.

In short, the duty God requires is to be holy as He is holy, and to love Him above all. Therefore he that does not hate his own life, says Christ, cannot be my disciple,Lk.14:26. Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter in and will not be able, Lk.13:24.

I ask you, is it coincidental that in a day when conviction of sin is comparatively rare, directions on the necessity of holiness to the unconverted are scarcely heard? Were they to be heard they might well be described as legalistic and rejected as a move away from the gospel to a form of salvation by works. But this kind of criticism misses the whole point of the Scriptures I just referenced to you. If the criticism was true then Christ Himself would have to be condemned for telling the rich young ruler, "If you would enter life, keep the commandments" Mt.19:17. That my friend, was indeed "law preaching"

 

Apparently, my Amens don't mean much but I say "Amen" also Brutus. Only thing I differ with is that WE still preach what sin or the Law is and that people must cleanse their hands or in other words quit doing evil if they expect the Saving Grace of our Lord. The creature was made subject to vanity but not willingly, but by reason of Him who subjected the same in Hope or Christ. Man had a choice and still does. Choose you this day whom ye shall serve and if you die in your sins where the Lord is you cannot come. I don't put a lot of time in scripture and verse for they were added by man but I do and will defend my beliefs by scripture.

 

Maybe I am very different from all the rest of you, I don't know. I grew up in a non-Christian home, although I did go to Sunday School with girlfriends when I was in the fourth-sixth grades. In high school I attended whatever church my current boyfriend attended...

In my twenties, it was the Lord who confronted me with the condition of my heart and the Lord who convicted me of sin. I was not attending any church at the time, and I can tell you for sure that if anyone had tried to get me to convert or become 'born again' by telling me about the law, I would have been totally turned off.

I was convicted by the Lord and then attracted to Him because of other Christians, and their lives and attitudes. And because of the Bible. I read it cover to cover because I did not want my infant son to grow up as confused as I had been.

Ransom said it is enough to have our sins forgiven. Not according to Jesus, who told Nicodemus that unless a man be born again he would not see the Kingdom of God. Jesus atoned for all sin on the cross, so no sin is left standing as an insult to God for eternity. The debt was fully paid. But we know that not all people are saved, so obviously atonement is not enough where the person's destiny is concerned. He or she must be born again.

Yes, it was our sins Jesus bore on the cross. And because of that our selves can be changed and born again. For me, I was saved from myself, because my original heart wanted to sin. This heart doesn't. And God judges the heart.

People already know there is a standard of righteousness -- it's just that so many people preach in different religions about how to achieve it! And so many, many people keep trying on their own to achieve righteousness. But for the seeker of truth, Christ did it for him or her, and that is a good part of the good news! In Christ we have the righteousness we could not achieve on our own.

But, Ransom, we do not read in the Bible that the unsaved will be held accountable for not living up to the Lord's standards. They will be rejected by Him simply and only for lack of belief in Him. For us, however, there is another judgment -- one in which the unrighteous cannot stand (Psalm 1), one will hear "Well done, good and faithful servant," and others will not hear much at all...

Frenchy, I apologize if I offended you. I did not mean to. You asked if everyone believed as you did in the opening post, and I don't. But maybe, again, my story is radically different from everyone else's.

I am most definitely not advocating a 'feel good' gospel. Please don't get me wrong. Don't avoid the subject of sin and evil and hell. But don't major on it, either. Major on Christ Himself, for He is the Savior.

Most unsaved people know they are garbage on the inside -- why do you think they work so hard to improve themselves? Why do you think so many excuses are made for their behavior? What they don't understand is the joy and peace and fulfillment that Christ gives: "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." That is Christ's call to a hurting and dying world. We can either live out that call or simply reinforce to people how rotten they are.

 

How can an unsaved man quit doing evil? It is part of his very nature. Read what God told Noah in Genesis 8:21.

 

Because the scripture says he can:

"16": Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

8": Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. You think the Lord is not present with sinners too. He said I stand at the door and knock. We can't even breathe without him but if we want to quit sinning he surely will help us to do so.

What was working with you was the Spirit of the Lord which strives with all men.

"8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

I am not saying that man can do anything on his own for the Lord said: without me you can do nothing but with me you can do all things well. The Lord is working with sinners too but they must choose to follow him. The sad part is that many choose to follow but don't get all the way to salvation.

"5": A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

"6": And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

"7": And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

"8": And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear

All in all, this has been a good discussion. I still say that most believe the same thing but are saying it in different ways. Just like you said the Lord started working with you but you had to take heed for it to produce good fruit.

[ March 12, 2006, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

How can an unsaved man quit doing evil? It is part of his very nature. Read what God told Noah in Genesis 8:21. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Helen!

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

Apparently, standing in Christ did not read the reply I gave Helen where the Grace of God which BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared unto all men teaching him to deny ungodliness and worldly lust, to do that, it has to teach him what ungodliness and worldly lust is and once again the Law appears in the scriptures to the sinners. The sinner is not just wandering around in the world without God being aware where he is and what he is doing and saying "come unto me" We do belong to God whether we are saint or sinner we are his creation and He strives with us to choose Him but gives us the choice.

Also read Jeremiah 17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings

This could go on forever by picking out a scripture here and there and not giving the whole subject.
Helen you said the Lord confronted you and condemned you but you still needed salvation for "The world is already condemned". You have to do something about it and it seems you did.

[ March 12, 2006, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Helen said:

Ransom said it is enough to have our sins forgiven.

Ransom is repeating what God-breathed Scripture says on the subject.

Ransom further wishes that Helen had read what he actually wrote.

Not according to Jesus, who told Nicodemus that unless a man be born again he would not see the Kingdom of God.

Jesus speaking to Nicodemus is not the last word on the subject, and John 3:3 is not the sum total of the Bible's teaching on salvation.

Jesus atoned for all sin on the cross, so no sin is left standing as an insult to God for eternity.

So Jesus has reconciled all men to God? That is, after all, what "atonement" means.

God no longer has wrath for any man? That is, after all, what "propitiation" means.

Wrong again Helen.

The debt was fully paid. But we know that not all people are saved, so obviously atonement is not enough where the person's destiny is concerned. He or she must be born again.

On my side of the Tiber, we believe Christ alone is sufficient to reconcile man to God.

And because of that our selves can be changed and born again.

You cannot point to a single passage of the Bible that says that Jesus' work on the cross merely man savable.

In fact, that is tantamount to Christ accomplishing nothing; since Scripture says that no man seeks God, if anything is left for man to do, it will fail. Perish the thought.

But, Ransom, we do not read in the Bible that the unsaved will be held accountable for not living up to the Lord's standards.

Wrong again Helen.

Men are indeed judged and condemned for their sin, not merely for "unbelief."

 

Thats what I wanted to say but didn't know how

 

StandfirminChrist:


Quoted:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

But the very next verse says the opposite of what he was saying but supports what I been saying all along.


17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings

[ March 12, 2006, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Has anyone here read the little book, Today's Gospel: Authentic or Synthetic? by Walter J. Chantry?

It's been a while, so I'm going from memory here; forgive me if I goof in the detail. Chantry outlines Jesus' dealing with the rich young ruler in Mark 10:
</font>

• Jesus points to the character of God as the only righteous one (v. 18). (Note he does not point to a Christian and say, "That man has something you should want.")</font>
• Jesus points him to God's standard of righteousness (v. 19). (No! Not the Law!)</font>
• Even more, Jesus makes the young man's transgression of the Law personal (vv. 21-22). The man loved his possessions more than his neighbours.</font>
• Jesus stresses the impossibility of man coming to God on his own terms (v. 24).</font>

And there are a few other points in his outline not immediately germane to this thread.

It's also important to note that Jesus let the rich young ruler go. Apparently, it didn't concern him too much that the "packaging" of the message was a turn-off.

 

Amen, Helen. (Hallelujah chorus fades in)....

 

Be careful what you "amen" genesis12. Even Helen admits to being convicted, studying the Bible and doing something about the condition she was in. Reminds me of someone saying the "dead" can't do nothing but in fact those that are "dead" in tresspasses of sin must repent or die that way and be lost. There are different kind of "dead". (The chorus just choked up)

Helen, I wonder how come Noah's heart was not evil for he found Grace in the eyes of the Lord.

 

I know some of you may think I am going to hell for saying this, but ... who said the men that limited the King James Bible to the included books, were "infallible?" Some Baptists sound like Catholics to me. All men are fallible!

In John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word..." We learn the real word is not that pile of paper you call the bible or that many have profited from. The real word is in our hearts, delivered by the holy spirit. And to deny that is a blasphemy of the holy spirit.

The old testement is a nice collection of interesting stories, but let's face it, according to Romans, even Abraham was saved by faith. The real rules have never really changed. Love, Love and Love.

Keep it simple. The devil is the author of all this hate and judgement. "Whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!" Blessed assurance means we are saved by grace and releived of the burden of being judged by our merits or imperfection.

 

This BB is a church, 2 or more, gathered in his name. According to the paper bible that so many have paid big bucks for but read so little and misinterpreted alot, Helen should not be attempting to persuade any of us of anything, as she is a woman. Read Corinthians.

It is impossible to take specific advice in specific times by men who were included in the bible as true for all in all situations.

This is where many refuse to come to the lord, because they perceive the Word as that of MEN!

 

The BB is not a church. We are not gathered together just because we post on the BB.