Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left?

As one who considers "hunt and peck" fast typing, exactly how slow can one type?



I'll try, myself.

Ed

 

Don't worry, the Czech is in the mail.

 

There was this fellow who played chess, frequently.

He met this lovely lady from Europe, and started dating. (Okay, so you already know where this is going.) He was not available for as much chess as before, with his buddies. When one asked where he'd been, he said he'd gotten in a long chess game, and was in held perpetual Czech.
Ed

 

When he got married he said "Czech-mate!"
Ed

 

Naw! Naw! Naw! You don't get away with this! You want to change the rules in the middle of the game. I ain't gonna let that happen. (EdEdSr. I understand.)

Your original post was this.

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

"38": For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
"39": And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"40": Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
"41": Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Direct quote of Matt. 24:37-41 KJV- Ed)

Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left? "

That is your question, and your words.
I 'answered' with my own question:

"How do you manage to read "saved" into the passage at all?' Especially, when it is not found in the text, at all. This is interpretation, not statement from Scripture that either are "saved", for perhaps, that is not what the verses are speaking of in the first place. "

Guess you didn't like my answer for you attempted to change the subject, by taking a couple of extra steps. (Yeah, I've been watching some of the NCAA basketball tourney today.) You wrote:

Language Cop whistled you for traveling; I got the ball and took a shot. With the ball over the rim, you swat at it; Languge Cop whistles you for 'goal-tending' and you want to claim 'home court advantage' allows you to do this but not me. Further, you want to be able to shoot 'jump-shots', but I have to shoot only 'two-hand set shots'. (I told you I had been watching basketball.)

You wrote:
" You have too many divisions of people to suit me or be accurate according to the word. There will be two groups, those on the left and those on the right. Don't make it so complicated the masses don't know what you are saying. You must reach the masses to fullfill your "being sent". "

"Tweet!" Traveling, once again, says Language Cop! "You are not allowed to run all the way from Matt. 24:37-41 to Matt. 25:31-34, without dribbling the ball!"

In fact, I only identified two groups, the ones taken and the ones left, here. (I'm typing here, as slow as I can.) And I did speak of saved individuals as saints. Uh' - you have heard that word "saint", I hope? It's found about 90 times in the Bible. Oh yeah, the two words "the saved" as a phrase is found in the Bible exactly zero times. So I'll repeat my statement, since you either did not understand it, or you missed what I said. (You get the whistle on this one.)

Do I need to repeat the last statement?

Either way, you can now walk off the court, and take your ball and go home, if that is what you choose.

As to "being sent", the definition of one who is an apostle, I've never made such a claim.

Supper awaits. Then bedtime calls. G'nite!
In His grace,
Ed

 

I dunno about that. My wife usually lets me have her way, and I try and let her have mine. Seems to have worked out pretty good so far for us.
Ed

 

This is a difficult passage and reading something into it, makes it even more unclear.

First off, the rapture is not even mentioned in the whole chapter. Jesus was referring to the flood of Noah's day. The flood represented the judgment of God. The taking and leaving must then picture those who will be taken into judgment.But this judgment refers to Jesus' second coming, with his angels.

When one compares this chapter with Matthew 24, and one reads of our Lord returning in the clouds. We read of his angels GATHERING THE ELECT from the four corners of the earth. But when does this take place. Matthew 24:29 says this will occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days. So the gathering of the saints or the elect does not occur until after the tribulation and when the Lord appears in the heavens. Something the false "secret rapture" teachers do not tell you.

 

There seems to be an active discussion of these matters in six
active threads. This causes confusion.

Ron Arndt: //First off, the rapture is not
even mentioned in the whole chapter.//

I've shown where it is. Please comment on my proof. Thank you.

------------------------------
In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
(in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
instead of an outline. This is most noticable
in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
I believe the major outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc.)

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.
--------------------------------------

The rapture is the gathering of Matthew 24:31.

Speaking of the gathering of the saints, Ron Arndt says:
//Matthew 24:29 says this will occur AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days.//

As seen above, i've showed that the gathering is NOT
AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days.

Elsewhere I've asked:
Where is the last KAI (and, and then, then, but, after) phrase
to which 'AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days' applies?
How do you know that?

Ron Arndt: //Something the false "secret rapture" teachers do not tell you.//

Poor form It is not a good debate practice to debate people who are
NOT posting on this board. Please debate with the people who are posting
here. Thank you for your kind honoring of this humble request.

 

I do not understand your criticism, but nevertheless the bible does not teach a secret rapture of the church unknown to the world and especially before any future tribulation 7 year time period. The bible only speaks of ONE return of Christ period.

 

Ron Arndt: // ... the bible does not teach a secret rapture
of the church unknown to the world ... //

I agree. I found one person on this BB who believes that
there will be such a secret rapture and she doesn't post
about it very much. The rest of the pretribulation rapturists
on this board do NOT teach 'a secret rapture'.
The pretirublation rapture of the mostly Gentile Church age
elect saints will be LOUD ENOUGH TO WAKE THE DEAD. The world
will notice something is going on.

Ron Arndt: //The bible only speaks of ONE return of Christ period.//

How come there are are the following 12 differences between two
noted 'returns' of Jesus?
----------------------------------

Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come
----------------------------------

I find it a problem to deny this mystery:
----------------------------------
3. Mystery of the Rapture

1 Chrinthians 15:51a (NIV):
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep,
but we will all be changed -- ...

1 Thessalonians 4:14,16

Titus 2:13 (nKJV):
looking for the blessed hope and
glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jeus
Christ

Of course, such a rapture must be pretrib
when 100s of millions of saints are still alive,
for after the tribulation there will only be a few
handfuls of living saints.
--------------------------------

I find in the Old Testament NO mention specificaly and explicitly
that Messiah would come two different times. Yet the New Testament
teachs it cleary.

 

I do think I recall Paul talking about "athletic events" like "running a race", for one instance, so I would assume that can be legitimate in a "scripture (sic[/I) discussion". ('LC' says to 'capitalize' the "S", here.) So, please, try and not move the "pivot foot" so LC doesn't whistle you for yet another infraction.

BTW, this happens to be, I agree, an instance in Scripture where the account of the flood is used to show something else, in a non-literal way. It is showing a continuation. Things were going along "as always". And the message is that 'no one knows the day or the hour [Edward Whisenant, Hal Lindsey or Charles Russell, among many others notwithstanding (I'm typing as slow as possible, here. Please try and follow me.) as to the specific time], and the sudden? occurrence of the flood is an example of this, but that one 'could know' that this was and is "near- at the doors.". The parable of the fig tree is used as an example of the 'nearness'.

There was likewise an obvious, though unspoken here, example of the 'nearness' of the Deluge that was coming. A giant ship as long as one and a half football fields, nearly as wide as a softball infield, and as high as a five story building, filled with hay, grain, and the like, sitting in Noah's 'driveway' that he had been working on and supervised the building of for over a century, with only one door.

 

I wonder if anyone other than me can envision a 'conversation' somewhat akin to this from one of Noah's neighbors, and a long time 'friend'.

{"Unh- unh- uh- um! Hey, dummy! How do you expect to get anybody to stay in your "hotel" there, when you can barely see in there? You are a nut! You've only got one window around the top, and its only a cubit wide! You can't even use candles or lamps here, for the fire hazard of all that straw! They ain't gonna' ever let you open this place with only one way in and out, you know. Gonna' make you redo all the access and put in several more doors.

"Oh, wait! Now I get it! This isn't a hotel; you're building a zoo! THAT'S why you've assembled all these animals. I doubt it will ever pay for itself, though. Well, anyhow let me get out of your way while you put all these animals inside. "Noah's Zoo", huh? Look's like a big chest! Ever think of calling it "Noah's Ark"? Has a nice ring to it. I'll drop in again next week, and tour the place. Take care! Gotta' run.

"Oh yeah! We're having a big party tomorrow, since my son's university just won the basketball tournament ["I still ain't sure I even know exactly what Basketball is, but he seems to be the star- player at five cubits tall (gets all that height from the wife's side of the family as her dad was even taller than he is)], but the food and drinks are always outstanding at that five star hotel. Well howdy, Mrs. Noah! You doing all right? Good to hear that. My wife was asking about you after I was here two weeks ago. Y'all got a great family. Everybody helping Dad on his "project".

"Oh, did I tell you all? My niece is getting married next week at the same place, and we'll have another party then. An the week after that my birthday comes up and we'll have another party for that. I'll be 600. Same age as you Noah, as you obviously know. We want you and your family there too, and the wedding as well, so we'll be looking for you. What? You can't make it. Oh well, I understand. What? No! No, I do understand. It's going to take a lot of work to take care of all those animals. Well, looks like you got the last ones in. I'll be back. Man! This is going to be a great month! Oh yeah, one more thing. Sorry to hear about your old grand-dad dying last week. Sorry I didn't get to pay my respects. I'd have come by, but I was out of town working over in Enoch that week, and didn't even hear about it until I read it in the paper. Boy, was he ever up there. Paper said he was 969 years old! I saw him over here just two weeks ago, and he was getting around better than you or me. Sure must have been sudden.

"Your dad has been dead now what, five years? Your mom - seven? Yeah, that's what I thought. You know, your daddy was the best preacher I ever heard. And he sure thought a lot of you, too. Said so often. He was sure right about you being a good guy. Guess it's just you eight, now. Anyhow, take care. Gotta run. See you soon. Bye!" Starts to walk off.

[ March 22, 2006, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

(Now talking to himself.) "How'd he shut that door like that? I never saw anything like that. It was almost like an unseen hand shut that thing, from the outside. Guess that'll keep all them animals in, so they won't get out at night. I'll say this. He's done a good job with this thing. You almost need a magnifying glass to see the outline of the door. Couldn't get a knifeblade around it anywhere. Good builder! Best I ever seen! When we build our new home, in a year or two, I'm gonna' have him do the job.

[ March 22, 2006, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

"I've always liked Ol' Noah. Nice guy! Even if he is a little strange. He sure is hard to get to take it easy, though. Pretty straight-laced, if you ask me. Always talking about God. He'll talk to anybody, any time. But some of his ideas are a little off-beat. Calls Him "Yahweh", or something like that. Like he thinks he's got some personal knowledge or is on a first name basis with 'the man upstairs'. You'd think he didn't know I believe in God, too. In fact, I'm probably more religious than he is. I know I do more to help other people than he does. Bring better offerings, most of which I've put a good amount of work into. Not him! HE goes out and grabs a poor defenseless little lamb, or calf and kills it! Gets blood on everything. Does he talk about helping people much? Nope, not him. He just talks about faith, and grace, and righteousness and judgment, and blood. Even said there's going to be something called a flood. That blood thing is what's really weird, though. Why would anyone want to do that? Strange!

" That whole bunch is sort of strange. Grandpa said they'd all been that way since old Enoch up and disappeared. He said the old-timers said that he was even a better preacher than Lamech. Said he was a real 'Holy Joe'. Nobody could find hide nor hair of him. My guess is, he just got tired of all of it, and wanted to start a new life, somewhere else, and just took off. (Wonder if anybody ever checked the bank accounts? That might tell you something. Heh! Heh!) Happens sometimes, to the best of 'em. Somebody will just disappear. Boy, I gotta hustle. It's getting dark, somehow, early tonight. Never saw the firmament look quite like that, before. Wish I had some way to get a picture of this, so I'd have it to show the grandkids, some day. Anyway, I'm...MAN!! What in the world was that noise?? Sounded like a cannon went off in the firmament, and just kept firing. Now THAT was weird. "Honey, I'm home!" "I don't know. I heard it too...."...}

Again, just a question- Am I the only one who could envision this 'conversation'?

Actually, I try to sleep more than I usually can. Two physical problems do not allow as well as I would like, and one works against the other.

As to "I get the feeling you might me (sic) exalting yourself a mite too. ", if this is in fact the case, there's little I can do to affect your "feelings". However, an insistence that you stay with the verses you have proposed and answer the question on the specific verses and me not let you jump around at will, and read something into the verse(s) that is not there, is not "exalting yourself a mite".

[ March 22, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

I believe that Scripture teaches many things, obviously, as do we all. I believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, for example; salvation by grace through faith, for another; the 'translation' of the church before the tribulation, for a third, and so forth.

What the Scripture you asked for comment on, namely

does not in any way address, which was what my questions were, in the first place, is an answer to your opening question of " Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left? " This must be answered with other Scripture, for it cannot be answered in itself, as I asked. And it was answered by me. And obviously, not all agree with either you or I.
And the fact that:
" So we find that Noah found grace of the Lord himself and by Grace are ye saved. " happens to be entirely Biblical and true, does not make any of it be found in Matt. 24:37-41.
In His grace,
Ed