Church is for believers

How does this statement in any way make you think that anyone is saying they should be excluded? It says they are "incidental".

We are to go out into the world and evangelize; not conform to the world in order to fill the pews.

Church meetings are for edifying one another; they are for fellowship; they are for worship; they are for teaching and preaching. </font>[/QUOTE]How about this statement right under it.

 

It seems that the one of the main themes of the Bible is, love your neighbor, minister to the lost world. We have the great commition, Jesus demonstrates his commitment to ministering to the lost, even on the Sabbath.

I dont think I will find what you are looking for. Thou will bring lost people into church on Sunday.

But then again, you have shown no scripture saying not to bring lost people into the meeting place of the Body of Christ so they can be ministered to.

Please show me that. I beleve the entire content of the New Testament leads to my point of view.

 

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

Please, how hard is it to invite somebody to church. Shake their hand and say welcome. Maybe get them a cup of coffee.

Ya, thats a real sprint. I bet it just ruined the whole week. Ridiculous.

So beings my family (mother and father) are not saved, when they visit I should not invite them to church. Because:

Church is not for the unsaved

It would be difficult for me somehow, and I would burn out.

And their presents their prevents me from becoming refreshed and renewed, somehow.

Should I go, or stay with my guests. Sometimes they want to go. I guess I will tell them Nope others are trying to be refreshed by God, your presence will prevent that.

 

Yoked? I guess we shouldent go to the same grocery store then. Or the same job or etc. We certenly should not let the unsaved in our homes. Is it ok to be yoked to them Mon thru Sat just not Sunday. If you beleve this scripture is speaking about letting unsaved people in your church, I hope you have body gaurds actively keeping them out at the door.

Please do not twist scripture. Being yoked in not the same as being in the same building.

 

I think you are going to extremes DeeJay. By all means invite your parents to church. I don't think anyone would say you were out of line. What is wrong is tailoring church services to unbelievers, rather than to the edifying of the body which is the reason for gathering together in the first place. Most unbelievers will not go to church unless they are going to be entertained, and many modern churches are more than happy to entertain them in order to get them in the door and try to convert them. This is not what the bible tells us to do. The bible said to go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. Not go get the world and bring them to church. If churches are using the gathering of the saints to minister to the unsaved, the believers are not being fed.

 

Your concern for the unsaved is transparent.


Let me back up. I was not born a Christian. I had no idea what Christianity was until I was a young adult after high school. I had been baptized a Mormon, but had fallen away. I was trying to learn more so I could marry my wife in the Mormon temple. I began working with an individual who was Christian he was only a couple years older then me.

Somehow the topic of religion came up and he asked me what I thought. I assumed he was Mormon (utah and all) and told him I was trying to learn and go back to church (LDS) to merry my girl in the temple (like a good mormon). I was also planing on going on a LDS mission (like a good mormon).

Anyway this individual attempetd to wittness to me. He did his best and peaked my interest but I am inquisitive and he could not answer all my questions and objections. But I was interested in what he said because it was so different then what I had been taught as a Mormon. He invited me to speak with his pastor, who could answer my questions. I said "no way, dont want to be preached to" He then asked if I wanted to go to church with him. Just come in your normal clothing he said.

I was curious and had never had the oppertunity to go to any church that was not LDS. I went, it wa cool people were friendly, somebody invited me to dinner, people shook my hand. NOT ONE PERSON MENTIONED MY JEANS, unheard of in LDS church. People WORSHIPED here it was so different.

I was absolutly lost going to hell. I was not only lost I was a member of the Mormon church. But I went the next week, and the next and the next. I then talked to the pastor. Things became clear. Jesus wanted to save me by his works. No wonder all my trying and I never felt good enough for God. Several Sundays later I walked down to the front of a small church and told the members that Jesus Christ saved me. I was Baptized the next Sunday and joined the church.

Since then my brother has left the LDS church, my fiance that I was going to marry in the temple was saved and baptized we were married in a Baptist church.

Praise the Lord this chruch did not make me feel like I was incidental. I felt like I was there sole reason for being there. This is what made me listen to the message of the Bible. Something was different about these people.

So am I posting from emotion. YES, I as sitting at work in my office crying my hand are shaking.

You look for your scripture that says avoid unsaved people in your church. I was an unsaved person who was welcomed into a church and have seen what happened in my life because of it.

I am done with this thread.

 

So you were seeking, and you had been witnessed to by someone who invited you to come to church and speak to someone who could answer your questions. This is totally different from throwing wide the doors and saying 'come on in, everyone is welcome.' That is not what church is about. Church is about discipling those who have been born again. The outreach of the church to the lost doesn't end on Sunday, but the gathering together of the body to worship and glorify God and to be built up by the preaching of the word shouldn't be confused with evangelism. They go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing.

 

Hello, DeeJay. Meet the board lunatic, heretic, and whatever it is that Primitive Baptists are often taught of.

I'd like to say that there is no lost world out there, only the condemned world, and the world of God's people. The world of the goats, and the world of the sheep.
Jesus referred to His own as His sheep, David referred to those who are God's own as being 'the sheep of His pasture'.
Jesus went up the cross to redeem His people, all who will be born already under the blood of the Lamb slain in eternity past, and in time, two thousand or so years ago.
There is no more lost sheep, no more lost world.
The world He died for, and 'so loved', is already a redeemed world, each and every occupant of whom will be regenerated by the Holy Spirit in due time.
Not all will be part of churches that teach correct doctrine, because we are born into a fallen world, the world of the goats, the world of the condemned, which will be judged in due time.
Now, having said that, I side with you, first, but not for the emotional reasons you are sitting for at work crying in front of your computer with your hands shaking.
While church is a time of worship and fellowship for like-minded individuals, church on this earth is not an inclusive-exclusive private for members only club. Church in heaven is.
On the other hand, the church has no mandate to save souls, it has no mandate to reach out to the lost, since as I said, there are no more lost souls, only the condemned and the sheep who are to be regenerated, though already redeemed.
I am surprised at the responses here, because generally, these posters are those who might hold to the position that the church and believers have a mandate called the Great Commission, and that there is only one kind of world, when discussing John 3:16, yet no one opposed your unspoken concept of two kinds of world, the lost world and, by implication, the saved world.
Now you are bound to really be frustrated.
Imagine having the 'town drunk and idiot'of the venerable Baptist Board siding with you ?

 

I did not go sit in a random church. The person who witnessed to me invited me to go to church. I would not have went to the side with anyone, it would have been uncomfortable. I was a lost person who was saved in a church of believers. I was saved by both hearing the Word of God in church and by observing the difference in the Body of Christ.

Should the person who invited me to church, done just that. Should he have invited me or not?

That is what we are talking about. You said they should have avoided me being there. I say you are wrong. That is the disagreement.

Please, I am crying because I dont think I have reflected on those months when God changed my life forever. Maybe I should more often. And I have told my testemony but never put it into writing. It has nothing to do with this disagrement. It has everything to do with what God has done in my life.

I have also had a bad day. I have been cleaning up blood all night. One of my staff went to the hospital. Another person was sent out on a helicopter. Maybe that contributed to my emotions. BUt is is not this argument.

Gina I know from your other posts you have more compasion then you are showing. I am going to let it go for now.

Please answer the question in bold and think about where I would be if you answer no.

 

James

Notice I never said we should reorder our churches to cater to lost. I dont even know what throwing our doors open to the lost would be. Our church doors are always open to whoever walks in. I am disagreing with the statement that we should avoid bring lost people to church. You now seem to be saying this is ok to invite somebody to church. I guess the Yoked thing dosent apply.

Pino

I dont want to get into the who Calvi Vs other thing. That is what the forum below has become on every thread. You also seem to be saying it is ok to invite a lost person to church. Thanks.

If I had not been invited into you alls church I would be raising my kids in the LDS church right now. I am thankful everyday that the Lord rescued me from that and I am thankful he used the church to do His work.

 

By the way Gina. I am ok now. I just had a bit of emotion when typing. I dont know why. I am not scitsophrenic, no nervious problem. I see it all the time when girls watch chick flicks. Not that I am proud of having a chick type reaction, but at least it was for a good reason not because I watched Sleepless in Seatle.

Thanks for your concern.

 

Gina

He did tell me about Christ. I had a ton of questions. I was stumping him in some areas with my what if questions. He spoke to me for several days before inviting me. I beleve he invited me several times before I accepted.

He could have brought me to a head knowlege of Christ. I was convinced by seeing how much different a born again belever was compaired to a LDS belever.

He did his best. He presented me with the roman roads. He had me understanding. After going to church I beleved. The pastor then cleared up the detals that I wanted to know.

I am not suposto mention it is a bloody mess because somebody was stabbed several times. Bleach and blood smell terrable. I cant wait until I go home.

 

The original post was referring to another post in another thread talking about bringing things into the church worship to appeal to the outside world and draw them into the church. The outside world doesn't have the ability to discern spiritually, and this usually means appealing to their flesh to get them to come to church. This is what we are talking about. Things like rock music in the worship service, which many people feel is inappropriate in a church setting. When you open the church up to the unsaved and the undiscipled, well the unsaved and the undiscipled show up. But then what? Do they all get saved and begin to grow in Christ? Or do they cause your daughters to stumble and your sons to go astray?

Acts 20:28-29
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

These wolves are able to come in as they please when you make the church into a social club. A pastor has a responsibility to try to keep these wolves out of the flock. If a brother is walking disorderly, we are commanded to separate from them. If a young believers is unwilling to put aside sin and begin to mature in Christ, he should eventually have to leave. If we just make the church a comfortable place for sinners, then that maturing never occurs.

It isn't wrong to invite an unsaved person to church, if the situation warrants it, but this is should not be the purpose of the church. Thats all I think anyone here was saying. The gathering of the assembly should be for the purpose of preaching the word, to the edifying of the saints. Teaching those who are born again how to live. The unsaved need to be made alive before they can be taught how to live.

 

Lol.

I hope you find sleep. I have about 3 1/2 hours to go. But it is going fast.

I will feel better tomorow and revisit the subject.

 

James

I missed the other post. Even though I personaly dont find anything wrong with a rock beat on a song that praises God, that is another thread. I agree that we dont need to try to make our churchs more attractive to the unsaved if it interfears with the main purpose of the church. To proclaim the Gospel.

I beleve the Lord should lead us to changes in our church. For instance if the pastor can see that church members are unfriendly to guests and it is turning people away, he may have a sermon discussing how we treat others. This is a change he is trying to make.

But I see what you are saying. We dont need to have a sermon in rap because some kid will think it is cool. The pastor does not need to where his pants down around his leg with his shorts hanging out because kids will come to church if he does. No playstation sunday school class.

I agree with your last post we do not need to appeal to the flesh to draw people. We should appeal to what they really need and crave. God in their lives. The church should do what the Lord wants then invite people to join in that. Not do what people like then ask the Lord to be there.

But this is different then what I was arguing with in the original post of this post.

That we should avoid allowing unsaved people in our churches.