How do you explain these verses?

Wonder why the Lord got angry when he came down from the mountain and found them worshipping idols. He should of known what they would be doing if some of them were not Israelites.

 

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

"All Israel" that shall be saved is elect Israel, those individuals that God has chosen. National Israel was indeed an elect nation, but the election of grace has to do with individuals.

 

That's easy:

 

Frenchy:
You post "did I make it up" says volumes what you think of me but so be it. I do wonder for I am sure you and the others believe you are part of the "elect". Do you all feel superior to the rest of mankind? Your remarks were unnecessary.

Isaiah, chapter 45

17": But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

"18": For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

"19": I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

"20": Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

"21": Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

"22": Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
"23": I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

"24": Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

"25": In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Whatever:
Still does not explain that the Gentiles were Aliens to the Commonwealth of Israel and without God, having no Hope. They were in bad shape but thank God we have a Saviour.

 

Jeremiah, chapter 3


8": And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Wonder why he had to divorce them if they were not His?

They lost their standing because of disobeidance, and by the way where is the scripture about the Gentiles being the elect (whatever)

 

Brother Bob,

Please read that Galatians passage again. It absolutely does explain how the Gentiles went from being outside the promises to becoming the seed of Abraham.

"Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, 'In you shall all the nations be blessed.' So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith."

Scripture foresaw the inclusion of the Gentiles in the elect, but many still have a problem "backseeing" it.

 

Whatever:
I agree, but it is by faith not by "elect", and if Jesus had not of come and died we would not be having this discussion because you and I would not even be in the number.

 

Brother Bob,

The "elect" are those of faith, those who believe, and it is those who are the seed of Abraham according to Paul. God chose to save all who will be saved, and He chose to save us by means of faith. "The elect" and "believers" are two different ways of saying the same thing.

You are correct that had Jesus not come and died we would have no hope.

 

whatever:
It is easier to graft the orginal branch in than a wild olive branch. Don't you see how merciful God was to let us in also. Even back before Christ they could become part of Israel if they were not the seed, by believing in Israel's God and following their ways. The scriptures are a hidden mystery and we have to pray for an understanding. He that lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God. We just can't read them literally and expect to get all of the meaning. Apostle Paul, the most educated man I can read of in the Bible said: I neither learned it of man and neither was I taught it but it came through and by the revelations of Jesus Christ. I meditate and ask God to help me understand. I have even preached things that I heard and after years God would reveal it to me that I had been wrong. We never cease to learn. God Bless you and I do love you.

 

Bro. Bob said: "by the way where is the scripture about the Gentiles being the elect (whatever)"

May I add to that a reply:

Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

JD:

22: What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy , which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24: Even us, whom he hath called , not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? At the time that scripture was written of course the Gentiles had been accepted in. The middle wall of partition had been broken down between the Jews and the Gentiles.

Called, not predestinate. That is the problem, He prepared his riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy. In no way does that say he predestinated the Gentiles.

 

Oh, God's mercy toward us is go great that we cannot begin to comprehend it. To find that we who were excluded have been included - Glory! And then to find that God had planned it all along - Glory! Glory!

I agree completely.

 

I'm having trouble following your line of reasoning. Your statement was

"by the way where is the scripture about the Gentiles being the elect (whatever)"

and then you said

"Called, not predestinate. That is the problem, He prepared his riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy. In no way does that say he predestinated the Gentiles."

Election and predestination are not the same thing, though they are related. The elect are predestined, and that is held as true in both the arminian and calvinist system. The church, composed of both Jews and Gentiles, but now mainly Gentiles, is referred to as the elect repeatedly thoughout the N.T.

 

J.D.
I agree that The Church is referred to as the elect thoughout the N.T. It is how they got there that I think we disagree. I am sure you knew what I meant when I said predestinate and not elect but as it is. Maybe you agree with me then? Scripture is still talking about "riches of His glory".

Whatever:

Well said but you always have to throw that in foreknew don't you?

 

I can do no other, LOL.

 

Sister Frenchy, I received your slam via pm. How
thoughtful of you to personally deliver your
unbiased opinion to little old me personally and
privately. In the future, is it possible that
it can be shared on the forum instead? It would be
delightful to have it on here, you're so sweet!