Christian "Rock"?

Excellent posts DHK, James, and Standing Firm.


Every thing that is "spiritual" is not Godly.

 

Ummmm, what about the spirit?

 

Glad to know I'm above average in DHK's sight... or maybe I'm just an average saved person?

 

Okay, folks, we're now at fifteen pages of posts, and not one post so far supports the idea that specific genres of music are inhierently sinful, evil, or in any way unscriptural.

That in and of itself supports what I've said many times. We need to objectively abd properly discern between what we dislike, and what is unscriptural. There appears to be no shortage of folks to equate their dislike of something with that thing being unscriptural. The fact that there are fifteen pages on this thread is evidence to taht.

 

Why is it that CCM always = worship environment. I listen to CCM at home, in the car, working out, etc. along with *gasp* some secular styles. Is it sin to enjoy listening to it just for the sake of enjoyment? If yes, this is gnostic reasoning...if I enjoy it, it appeases the flesh. Well so does pizza. Take an artist who enjoys painting. If the person only paints images of spiritual things, that is fine, but if they start painting cars or sports it would be "worldly". Even if some forms of CCM do not sit right with your style of Church, the music and lyrics are not "worldly" and should not be avoided or branded as such.

 

Ron, who are the many? No one will tell me. Have you talked to the many and they've told you they listen to Ozzy for their inspiration.

Does Steve Green listen to AC/DC?
Does Larnell Harris listen to Queen?
Does Twila Paris listen to Metallica?

 

Yep. Now 16.

 

And I hope that you are not basing your entire belief on appropriate music on what your local music store sells and does not sell.

And why do you think that the "average unsaved person" is the one buying CCM from music stores? And even if they are, it indicates nothing - no more than the multitudes of unbelievers who buy Bibles everyday.

Again what is amazing in this discussion is that you cannot even see how irrational your line of reasoning is.

Here we go again ... rock music = rebelious roots = CCM is bad.

I will give you the privilege of informing our band members that they are dishonoring God with their worship because many years ago some people rebelled and wrote some rock songs.

Here is a question for you: can music in and of itself be inherently evil or wrong?

I would include "spirit" with "heart"

You almost insult Scripture by using it to say something it does not say. If you are going to use Scripture to support a position, at least make sure it has something to do with what we are talking about.


This is fun. Continuing to wait for some biblical support or logic in this discussion ...

 

Or what about...lions = used to eat Christians = enjoying lions is against Christianity = lions live in zoos = taking your kids to the zoo is worldly and goes against Christianity.

 

Alan Ives, a former rock & roller, says: "How do you understand what good Christian music is? It ought to sound different from the rock station, the easy listening station, the entertainment music. When we sing gospel songs in the good old-fashioned way, they don't sound like anything that the world sings. That's the way we need to keep it. We can never portray the peace of the Lord with wild, discordant, violent sounds. We can never speak of the love of God with hateful music, the goodness of the Lord with bad music, the majesty of God with low class music, the power of God with puny music, the wisdom of God with stupid music, the holiness of God with unholy music. We can never speak of godliness with ungodly music, of heavenly things with earthly, sensual and
devilish music. And we can never speak of being a
soldier if we use dance music" (Alan Ives, "How
to Tell the Difference between Good and Bad
Music")

 

That's only one mans' opinion. Are we to apply this to everything in life, too? If the "world" drives a car with four wheels, we should design one with three? If the "world" plays football with helmets, we should refrain? If the world eats hamburgers and pizza, we should eat dandelions and bark? This line of thinking is dumb. The "world" has message boards similar to what the BB is...I guess we must be either "worldly" or hypocrites for posting.

 

"FOURTH WATCH cites groups like U2, the Police,
Genesis, Pete Townshend, and the Alarm as major
influences. MEMBERS LISTEN TO A GREAT DEAL OF
MAINSTREAM MUSIC, MAKING NO APOLOGIES FOR IT, and
they express a desire to play clubs and other
non-church settings" (CCM Magazine, April 1987,
p. 19).

RANDY STONEHILL "listens to all kinds of music,"
including hard secular rock (Devlin Donaldson,
"Rockin' Randy," CCM Magazine, August 1983).

PHIL KEAGGY performs an unholy combination of
secular rock and Christian rock/folk, and those
who listen to his music are drawn toward worldly
rock & roll. On his 1993 Crimson and Blue album,
for example, he pays "homage to the Beatles" with
several of the songs.

When ASHLEY CLEVELAND was asked what music was on
her stereo, she replied, "Living With Ghosts,
Patty Griffin; What's The Story Morning Glory,
Oasis; Exile On Main Street, the Rolling Stones"
(http://www.ashleycleveland.com/acfacts.htm). In
her concerts, Ashley Cleveland performs a very
gritty rendition of the Rolling Stones hit "Gimme
Shelter."

CAEDMON'S CALL said their greatest love in music
is secular rock. They mentioned Indigo Girls,
Shawn Colvin, David Wilcox, The Police, Fishbone,
10,000 Maniacs (Lighthouse Electronic Magazine).
The group often performs Beatles music. Cliff
Young said one of his favorites is the
foul-mouthed Alanis Morrisette. He mocked a
preacher who warns that Christian musicians
should not listen to secular rock and said that
he listens to secular rock & rollers because
"they are being honest [about] struggles that
they go through."

AUDIO ADRENALINE'S Bloom album includes the song
"Free Ride" from the Edgar Winter Group's They
Only Come out at Night album. Rock star Edgar
Winter was featured on the cover of this wicked
album dressed as a homosexual "drag queen." The
lyrics to "Free Ride" claim that "all of the
answers come from within." This is rank heresy,
because we know that the answers do not come from
within man's fallen heart, but from God's
revelation in the Bible.

STEVE CAMP says, "I'll have a Foreigner 4 album
going in my car." He also says: "I am dedicated
to good music whether it's pop, Christian,
gospel, R&B, blues, jazz, classical, rock or
whatever. I just love good music" (Steve Camp,
MusicLine magazine, Feb. 1986, p. 22).

Some of DC TALK'S musical role models are the
Beatles, David Bowie, and The Police, all of
which are wicked secular rock groups. dc Talk's
album "Free at Last" contains a song titled
"Jesus Is Just Alright," which was first sung by
the Byrds (the song was later covered by the
Doobie Brothers). dc Talk's Kevin Smith admits
that he listens to mostly secular rock music
(Flint Michigan Journal, March 15, 1996, B19). dc
Talk opened its "Jesus Freak" concerts with the
Beatles' song "Help." They also perform Jimi
Hendrix's Purple Haze. Hendrix was a drug-crazed
New Age occultist. Toward the end of their
concerts dc Talk played the rock song "All
Apologies" by the wicked secular rock group
Nirvana, formerly led by Kurt Cobain. Terry
Watkins notes: "Kurt Cobain is one of the worst
Antichrist blasphemers since John Lennon. Kurt
Cobain decorated his home with blood-splattered
baby dolls hanging by their necks! The inside of
Nirvana's album In Utero, which is the album dc
Talk got 'All Apologies' from, has pictures of
chopped up babies! Cobain ran around his
neighborhood spray-painting, 'ABORT CHRIST' and
'GOD IS GAY.' Cobain's first band was called
'Fecal Matter' (Watkins, Christian Rock: Blessing
or Blasphemy?). Cobain killed himself.

JARS OF CLAY names Jimi Hendrix and the Beatles
as their inspiration (Dann Denny, "Christian
Rock," Sunday Herald Times, Bloomington, Ind.,
Feb. 8, 1998). The lead guitarist for Jars of
Clay is said to be a "Beatles fanatic" (Christian
News, Dec. 8, 1997). When asked by Christianity
Today to list their musical influences Jars of
Clay members "listed no Christian artists"
(Christianity Today, Nov. 15, 1999). Jars of Clay
performs Ozzy Osbourne's "Crazy Train" during
their concerts. Osbourne is the filthy-mouthed
former lead singer for the occultic rock group
Black Sabbath.

AMY GRANT says, "I love to hear Billy Joel, Kenny
Loggins and the Doobie Brothers" (Time, March 11,
1985). Grant's album House of Love includes the
environmental-mother-earth song, "Big Yellow
Taxi," by new-age-priestess Joni Mitchell, who is
infamous for her relationship with a spirit she
calls "Art." Obviously she is communing with
demons, and it is unconscionable for Amy Grant to
be promoting Mitchell's music to Christian young
people.

Dana Key (of DEGARMO & KEY) says that he has been
influenced most by B.B. King, Jimi Hendrix, and
Billy Gibbons (of ZZ Top) (CCM Magazine, January
1989, p. 30).

POINT OF GRACE, on their Life, Love and Other
Mysteries album, recorded "Sing a Song" by the
occultic, antichrist rock group Earth, Wind and
Fire.

The worldliness of DELIRIOUS is evident in their
choice of "musical heroes," which include
"Radiohead, Blur and other big British modern
rockers" (CCM magazine, July 1999, p. 39).

The group DELIVERANCE performs songs by secular
rock groups. Their What a Joke album has the song
"After Forever" by the vile, blasphemous, pagan
rock group Black Sabbath.

LETHAL MOB said that they are influenced by
gangsta rap. MORTIFICATION testified that they
are into Death/Grind, Black Metal; they play in
Melbourne's Hell Club. MAYFAIR LAUNDRY, a group
that got its name from a scene in a Beatle's
movie, cites influences from the Beatles to Red
Hot Chilli Peppers. ZAO says they listen to
Neurosis, Bark Market, Portishead, and Deftones.
THE HUNTINGTONS' new album pays homage to their
favorite band, the vile punk group The Ramones.
The producer of this album is Mass Giorgini who
also produced albums for The Queers and
Screeching Weasel. THE DINGEES told HM magazine
that their major influences are the Clash, the
Specials, and "movies where everything is blowing
up." D'GRUVE, which has a "heavy, dark sound,"
got its name from an early 90s dance hit and
cites influences as diverse as the Beatles and
Saigon Kick. DALLAS EMBODYMENT, which plays
concerts in secular clubs, is described this way:
"truly heavy, metal/punk, Kevin peering over his
bass ominously and Andrew banging his head full
of hair like a true metalhead, shrill
close-to-the-mouth hardcore screeching."
ULTIMATUM'S 1998 album is described as their most
brutal extreme metal onslaught.

When asked what is currently in her CD player,
CHRYSTAL LEWIS replied: "Michael Jackson,
Thriller; Billy Holliday; Led Zeppelin;
Radiohead, Ok Computer; Radiohead, Kid A; and
Sting, Nothing Like the Sun ("Ten Questions with
Chrystal Lewis," CCM Magazine, March 2002).

The popular group THIRD DAY also loves secular
rock. Michael Herman of Christianity Today asked
the members of Third Day to "name a musician
you'd pay to see in concert." All five members of
the band named secular rockers. Tai named U2;
Brad, the Cars; David, Phil Collins; Mac, Tom
Petty; and Mark, George Harrison ("Guy Talk"
interview posted at Christianity Today web site,
Feb. 26, 2002). Anyone familiar with the music
and atmosphere at secular rock concerts should
know that a Bible believer has no business there.
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works
of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph. 5:11).

 

Ron, that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

Cool. I like a lot of those same bands. Again you are making a false dichotomy between secular and sacred that I am not sure you will find supported in Scripture. But that's another discussion.

 

Take away the lyrics and you have the same worldly music that Groups such as Nirvana, Earth Wind & Fire, Led Zeppilin, ZZ Top, and other such groups.

That music was in the world before it was brought into the church.

And many scriptures have been given over the last 16 pages to show we are not to have part with it, but those scriptures are rejected by those who love the worldly music too much to admit it is not of God.

 

Ummmm, what about the spirit? </font>[/QUOTE]Great point, Sue!

 

Psa 69:12 They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards.

Ecclesiastes 7:5
5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

I don't know what you mean by 'music in and of itself'. I do know this. There are songs of drunkards and fools, and there are songs of God. I wouldn't want to be changing the words of songs of drunkards and fools and calling them the songs of God.

 

SFIC's list is an excellent list of popular Chrisitian artists in my sister's CD collection. I don't usually buy Christian music with the exception of things like Gregorian chant and Handel's Messiah. I've enjoyed Jars of Clay and Amy Grant but don't know much about the other groups/individuals. I also enjoy songs from their influences. U2, Beatles and Zeppelin are some great artistic influences.

I think there are some Amy Grant songs that I've sung in worship but have never sung any of the others in a worship setting. Most of the songs we sing in worship are from folks like Keith Green, Brian Doerksen, Matt Redman, Graham Kendrick and David Crowder. We also often sing classic hymns although we usually sing them in a modern style.

Yes, our church is a worldly one in the eyes of SFIC and others who share his position. However, we have no interest in pleasing man who looks at the outside of the cup, but God who looks at the inside.

 

I sure hope you refrain from singing the hymn "Oh Sacred Head, Now Wounded" during Holy Week. It is a fact that many beloved hymns are secular tunes with the words changed.