Purpose of Church meetings

I have a question here. The OP seems to be describing a church where the youth group especially (as well as other children's ministries) is comprised of both unsaved and saved kids....I mean on a regular basis at every activity. Do you think this is a good idea for our kids? I honestly am not sure where I stand here, yet.

I think there's a difference between inviting unsaved friends and neighbors in order to be preached to, and, otoh, incorporating the unsaved kids into the everyday activities of the youth group. The latter is the idea I got from the OP situation. When I was a teenager I was in a youth group that had this philosophy, and frankly it was very worldly and there was almost no spiritual benefit from being a part of that group. In fact, it was members of that group that first introduced my sister to drugs.

Shouldn't there be a line drawn at some point? Especially within the children's ministries?

 

The Apostle Paul rejoiced at every means of preaching the Gospel, whether with the right or wrong motives. Why should not we?

"What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice" (Phil. 1:18).

Once again, where is your Scripture for saying it is wrong to bring folk to church to get them saved? Where does it say in the Bible that having a special evangelistic event at church for the purpose of getting folk in so you can preach the Gospel to them is wrong?

(And of course I am sure that we all agree that situation ethics is wrong. We wouldn't have a church class in pickpocketing in order to get lost people in, right? )

Here in Japan, virtually every missionary I know and some Japanese pastors use English classes to get Japanese people in to hear the Gospel. I've never, ever heard it bandied about by missionaries or Japanese pastors that this is wrong or unbiblical.

The truth is, it is so difficult to get a hearing for the Gospel here, I am delighted whenever I hear of a new way of doing it. I have a Japanese pastor friend (not a Baptist) who has a mixed-martial arts class ("shoot fighting") in his church in order to get young people in to hear the Gospel. More power to him, I say! Choke 'em out for Jesus!

 

Well we would almost have to close the doors if not for the unsaved coming to hear the word of God. That is where we get our members. We would have to close the doors after the ones we have died. I say bring in everyone you can find. Go ye into the highways and call both the good and the bad to come. I would rather preach to a bunch of lost folks anytime, that is my job, to preach the Gospel to all the world and he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. "preach repentance". Send them to me!!!

 

bapmom, IMO the youth group you describe suffered from a extreme lack of leadership, from what I am reading. I find it bizzare that drugs would be a factor in a youth group if it had spiritual, godly leadership.

If a youth group is led by a man who is sold out for Christ and earnestly seeks the salvation of the lost kids coming, they will either get saved or get extremely uncomfortable and quit the group, IMO.

 

AMEN!!

We might have to stop weddings and funerals, or at least keep the lost people out. These are church events which can be used to preach the Gospel!

 

bapmom, IMO the youth group you describe suffered from a extreme lack of leadership, from what I am reading. I find it bizzare that drugs would be a factor in a youth group if it had spiritual, godly leadership.

If a youth group is led by a man who is sold out for Christ and earnestly seeks the salvation of the lost kids coming, they will either get saved or get extremely uncomfortable and quit the group, IMO. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with John's analysis here. Everything rises or falls on leadership. The problem is not the unsaved coming in it is the message not going out. Just today we had nearly 40 in attendance and five or six of those are probably unsaved. They heard the Gospel three times- SS, a.m. and p.m. No decisions but there were some thoughtful looks on faces as they went out. Sometimes that is the best we can wish for.

 

Bapmom, I'll address your question/issue in a thread in the Youth Area.

JoJ, BrotherBob, MexDeaf....you guys are so right and John be sure to slowly 'choke them to Christ' so they have time to be baptized, tithe and teach Sunday School....

 

Right, MRCoon. And this brings up the third segment of Matthew's Great Commission. If we are teaching them to observe what Jesus taught, then yes, we will be obeying Eph. 4 and training them to go out and find the lost.

I'll grant this to Hope of Glory, the best way is for our believers to be actively witnessing on their own outside of church. But oftentimes a shy believer finds it easier to just invite someone to church, and I think that is a very valid way for a shy Christian to do their best with the Great Commission.

Not to get all emotional, but I was shy that way in high school (still am to a degree). But God gave enough grace to invite my friend Don to an evangelistic meeting, where Don got saved. He became a faithful church member and my best friend!

 

I agree with John's analysis here. Everything rises or falls on leadership. The problem is not the unsaved coming in it is the message not going out. Just today we had nearly 40 in attendance and five or six of those are probably unsaved. They heard the Gospel three times- SS, a.m. and p.m. No decisions but there were some thoughtful looks on faces as they went out. Sometimes that is the best we can wish for.
I find this statement made by Mexdeaf very troubling. In fact I believe that it points out one of the major problems with the church meetings. With nearly 40 people in attendance and probably five or six of them unsaved, why did nobody confront these people by simply asking them a question. Are you certain of your own salvation? Confronted by this question most people are very open, very sincere and will pointedly say, no I'm not sure, or no I'm lost, or I do not know whether or not I am saved. This of course opens the door for the opportunity both to witness and offer the opportunity for a person to accept the Lord Jesus Christ!!! Which of course should be a principal Purpose of church meetings. Just yesterday after church I came in contact with a young person(maybe 16 to 20) that I did not know. I ask that person may I ask you a question? Yes they said, whereupon I asked them are you absolutely positively certain you will go to heaven when you die? After a long Pause during which neither of us spoke the person finally said I hope so, maybe I'll go. Well I said here's what the Bible says about this in three different places." Whosoever shall call upon the name the Lord Shall be saved" after waiting a few moments I said, do you want to call on the Lord for your salvation? Yes the person said. Whereupon I led the person in this prayer. Lord Jesus thank you for coming into my life, forgive me of my sins,and save my soul. I accept you now is my personal savior. AMEN After saying the prayer I ask the person did they feel any different in their gut, down on the inside, than when we first started talking? Yes they said I do. What is it they ask? That is the Holy Spirit taking up residence in your body I said, without which you cannot go to heaven. Old thank you thank you thank you they said. End of witness.

 

Praise the Lord for a another soul saved and going to heaven...but be aware that alot of times people know what to say to please another person especially at Church.

My Pastor prays and leads people in the sinners prayer during his invitations and then encourages them to come forward and make that prayer public. I doubt the sincerity of anyone that would not come forward after saying they knew they were a sinner and having prayed to Jesus for salvation and then failed to follow through (yet many churches count this as a conversion)...I'm remind of 'he who does not confesses me before men, him will I not confess before my Father' (paraphrased).

So I say amen if this was a real decision for Christ instead of a pigeon-holed profession.

Also I'm curious and don't want to take what you said out of context but I dislike the use of a 'gut feeling' as the Holy Spirit indwelling...because what happens when they lose this feeling? This is how a few religions say one can "lose their salvation" and how a few other religions are able to make salvation an 'emotional issue'...so I would be wary of this and tread carefully. Maybe you meant it a different way and I misunderstood for that I apologize but if you meant it that way...I'm worried. By the way the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with going to Heaven...he is sent after one becomes a Believer to be a Comforter and Discerner of the Word.

 

yikes...I hope we don't see salivations at our church

HOLY DROOLING BATMAN!!!!!!

J </font>[/QUOTE]Oh My, that is funny is't it.

 

In regards to what Mexdeaf said and the issue that some took with it...we are assumedly all Believers of Christ on this board but yet we offend and attack each other....imagine the reaction to those people being 'accosted' in the Church because someone thinks/knows they are unsaved...embarrassing them or making them become defensive was not Christ's approach and should not be ours. We should share the Word as if they have no tommorrow but not assault them with it. We can't peer-pressure them into Heaven only the Holy Spirit is to be their conscience and conviction for the need for salvation. We should not ignore them or their need for Christ but need to preach the Truth, continue to be a witness to them and be a testimony for Christ.

 

Amen, MRCoon. I agree.

This is especially true in cross-cultural evangelism. If we are not depending on the Holy Spirit for His help in our witnessing, we will only have human results and not spiritual ones.

 

Mima, sorry you are troubled. I have been here on my missions field working with deaf Mexican folks for over 7 years (and working in the deaf culture for over 25 years) and I have learned that I can pressure them to pray a prayer at the drop of a hat, but that does not make them saved. It takes at least 45 minutes to an hour, sometimes more to explain the plan of salvation and assure that they understand it.

 

You have certainly asked an interesting question, and one that I have been prayerfully going over in my mind for some time searching the scriptures and I have several observations. not conclusions that I will throw out for your thoughts. I see the Church (catholic)with both a purpose and a mission and the two terms are not synonymous. Although different they are dependent one upon the other. THE PURPOSE is to exalt and lift up the name of Jesus in worship, praise God, minister to the other members of the body both physically and spiritually, break bread together, give good council and rejoice with them in their happiness and share in their sorrows. Also the Elders teaching the word,the older women counciling the young ones and the older men doing the same with the young.The Pastor teaching and preaching to us in order that we may prepare outselves for the MISSION.
The mission is AS YOU GO tell the Good News to everyone you encounter. This will be sort of automatic with the purpose in its proper place. Just as a good football team must have balance between their defense and offense the Church must have balance between its purpose and mission.
When one is over emphasized they both suffer.I have heard it said and I don't totally disagree that maybe we should not encourage the lost to attend our Worship Services yet we should always welcome them when they do.

 

mama9,

that's interesting that you say they would never have a bus ministry. JoJ is correct in his assessment of the youth group I was a part of. There was virtually no preaching or teaching in that youth group. I really do think the main problem there was a lack of good leadership.

However, I don't think that a bus ministry constitutes any problem in this area. In my church now the bus ministry is separate from the youth group ministry. This does not mean that the church teens are kept away from the bus kids....no. To the contrary. The teenagers are a vital part of the bus ministry. They participate as workers, bus captains, and even as teachers of some of the bus ministry Sunday School classes. (We run our bus ministry program on Saturday, so our teens still get their own Sunday School class on Sundays.)

I wouldn't agree with the idea that a bus ministry is wrong, which is the impression I get of this church's ministry philosophy. I think that bringing busload after busload of unsaved kids to activities where the gospel will be preached and they will be taught about Christ and about living right for God can only be a GOOD thing.

So I think that what some of the gentlemen have said is absolutely right....it's the leadership and the messages being taught that make all the difference.

 

Very good post!!! Kinda sums up exactly where I am on this one... Maybe that I why I thought it was sooo gooooood!

Elders? What kind of a Babbptist Church are Yooou in? Must be kinda like my own... Berea Baptist. How about that for a Berean?!

BTW, how is that for member 13379, NNE had claimed the name "Berean" yet?!?!?!

 

rjprince
I am in a SBC mega church in a downtown area with a Sunday morning worship service of about eleven or twelve hundred in attendance. (two identical services). The pastor and "shakers and movers)are wanting to build an aprox 3000 seat sanctuary but in light of a decline in attendance over the past three or four years i don't think it is a wise move. The downtown churches must have something to draw the people away from the suburbs. Either they must go the charismatic route or return to our roots of biblical truth. God forbid the first and we must have patience to do the latter. There are a lot of believers out there that are tired of "milk and toast" and are looking for real truth. Build it and they will come but not as fast as they flock to the "Word Faith" group.