Free Will or No Free Will? Does it Effect Evangelism?

Yeah, right. Like almost every prisoner says:

I ain't the one who dun it.

 

No it does not. Ignorance is not an insult, but an uninformed mind. We all are ignorant about certain things. I have found the vast majority of anti-calvinists are mis-informed and therefore ignorant of what Calvinists really believe.

Had I said he was stupid that would have been name calling.

 

Webdog,

Epistematic's answer was a valid answer, whether you wish to admit it or not. A non-C who holds to God's perfect foreknowledge has the same "problem". God commands everyone to repent and believe, but He knows that some will not repent and believe. He's not keeping those persons from repenting and believing; they do so of their own choice. Still, God commands them to repent and believe. Ergo, God must be lying to them because He knows they will not repent and believe.

That's a ridiculous assertion to make. Those who do not believe do their unbelieving willingly. Yet, God still commands them to believe. If you have a problem with these facts then take it up with God's Word.

 

True. The question then is whether man is good enough in his natural unregenerate state in his will to make a righteous choice or if God must act on him first.

 

Scott,

This is a great question and I think the crux of the matter. Except for the pelagians and even the semi-pelagians . I think most of us would agree that the Bible teaches that "no one comes to the Father, except he is called". The question for we who are not full Calvinist in our belief is---When God acts on a person, does that act cause regeneration then they are able to believe? or When God acts on a person, does that act give the person the ability to believe which brings about regeneration? This is a question of mine. I hope it makes sense?

Bro Tony

 

Scott,

This is a great question and I think the crux of the matter. Except for the pelagians and even the semi-pelagians . I think most of us would agree that the Bible teaches that "no one comes to the Father, except he is called". The question for we who are not full Calvinist in our belief is---When God acts on a person, does that act cause regeneration then they are able to believe?</font>[/QUOTE] Whether I am a true calvinist or not is for others to judge but I dislike the word "able" with relation to this discussion. An unregenerate man is right now "able" in the sense that he has both the mental and physical capacity to do so. His problem is his spiritual nature.

I believe (and believe it is most consistent with scripture) that man is "enabled" to the same extent that birth "enables" a child to breath. The capacity/ability was there already and needed to be freed. But once freed, it is consistent with the new nature to breath and live.

Regeneration as best as I can tell relates to the new birth. It changes an old spiritual being into a new one. I believe the freedom needed to believe must be secured before one can believe.

It would seem that the other way would be putting the cart before the horse. It would be like saying that Lazarus willed to be resurrected before he was.

Likewise, I hope my responses answered your questions and were understandable. I'd be glad to clarify anything that seems confusing or inconsistent with scripture.

 

Thank you Scott. I am doing some more study and praying on this. Anyone else please feel free to share your thoughts.

Bro Tony

 

This is what the incessent bickering over Calvinism and Arminianism brings to mind.

1Cr 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Cr 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Cr 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Most of the world is going to Hell and yet we're hanging around arguing whether we follow "Paul or Apollus." It doesn't really matter. Both theologies are supported in the Bible. Accept that and hit the streets to witness to the lost.

 

StraightAndNarrow said:

I don't think for a minute that you mean for this to come across like it does. It's obvious that you have a great burden for the lost and a zeal for witnessing to them.

But your post came across as smug and self-righteous. I don't think you are, but that's how I reacted. "I'm out there soul-winning, you're out there wasting time in piddling stuff."

Then you set up an either-or scenario, debating or soul-winning, as if one cannot do both. A huge number of people on this board--pastors, missionaries and lay people--are doing exactly that--both.

And the fact is, truth does matter. Our soteriology does drive our evangelism. Wrong soteriology equals wrong-headed evangelism. The New Testament writers spent much time defending truth and correcting error, and none too gently, either.

We do not have the luxury of sitting on the sidelines and sniping at both sides of the debate. We must engage, even with our brothers and sisters in Christ, just as Paul did with Peter.

Here is where discussions such as these have value. They require us to have our theological ducks in a row. Those who do will blow those who don't out of the water. Such discussion forces us to hone our arguments, and sometimes to discard some.

And I don't know how many times I have read a post and said to myself, "oh wow, I wish I had thought of that. I'll steal that and use it." So I also gather more ammunition.

Then there are those who are seeking truth, but are not sure what it is. Such robust discussions as we have on the BB, help them to find it.

I am with you on hitting the streets, or wherever God opens a door to our witness. I admire your zeal and thank God for it.

 

Tony,

I like Scott's way of putting it - we are all able to believe if we want to, but it is our unwillingness that keeps us from believing. Until our nature is changed we will always be unwilling to believe.

As far as Scripture goes, John 3 is supportive of this view, since Jesus talks to Nic about being born again before believing. Verse 8 is key - it is the Spirit who gives us this life, and as the wind, the Spirit blows where it wishes.

Eph. 1-2 are also important. Eph 2:1-7 show that it is God who makes us alive. And then verses 8-10 summarize that thought - that it is all of grace through the avenue of faith. And that faith is real - it is really our faith, but ultimately that faith is a gift from God through his regenerating work as dicussed in the previous verses.

Titus 3:3-7 are also great verses to meditate on.

And when you consider all these verses (and others) with the teaching in Romans 3:9-18 and other places that teach of our former selves before salvation, you can come to see that it is all because of God's grace, and there is no room for boasting whatsoever.