Confessions of a Former Worship Leader

As I recall you ran as fast as you could from that thread where Eric B proved conclusively that the categorical denouncement of certain styles of music as sinful was equally based in the same exact Greek superstition. YOUR INCONSISTENCIES ARE INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS.


I haven't read this book but I am certain that it deals exclusively with charismatic services and not the millions of other Christians who worship in the same spirit singing choruses as they do hymns. A quick search of reader reviews at amazon.com will guarentee that the book is unbalanced.

 

I bought this book and look forward to reading it. Let me get back to you

 

What does Dan Lucarini say about churches who utilize both traditional and praise music.? Does half the church get convicted and the other not?

 

I thought the primary purpose of worship was worship. Are you telling me that in Baptist churches the primary purpose of worship is to get ready to listen to the preacher? Worhsipping God is a mere precursor to the really important stuff?

 

I, personally, won't waste my money on the book as from what I've seen so far it only goes to prove that when someone approaches Praise and Worship from the wrong motives and perspective they inevitably reach the wrong conclusion when confronted with their own wrong choices.

After all *they* are the expert so it has to be the style not *them*.

Sorry, I disagree with his conclusions that *all* contemporary services have as their goals the ones he stated.

Proper Praise and Worship prepares for the Preaching of the Word of God. Without which, the preaching of the Word of God, no service is truly complete.

Though, I have led and been in some Praise and Worship services where a sermon was preached just as clearly as if the pastor himself delivered it.

A book I enjoyed is 'Facing The Wall' by Don Potter

Also Recommend 'Worship His Majesty' by Jack Hayford and 'Lifting Him Up' by Ron Kenoly and Dick Bernal

Granted these aren't 'Baptist' scholars or texts. But, they do give a more balanced perspective (IMHO) than people who either go into a book to debunk or as wild-eyed proponents.

 

Hi all..

former charismatic here.. (I know.. what was I thinking?)

Anyhoo.. We did mostly contemporary praise and worship at this former church, and while there were some definate things wrong at this church, I dont think the music was one of them.

Praise and worship music was exactly that.. Praise and worship music. It was music that had our beliefs in them that we sang to God.

In my opinion, whether or not God liked it and whether or not the people liked it never really was thought about because I dont think they would sing music that they thought God didnt like, after all, God created music. We were praising God with music. God liked it and we liked it. Im sure there were songs that my church felt doctrinally not correct, so they didnt sing it, because they didnt think God would like it.

I really dont think it has anything to do with that any more than traditional humns have to do with that. I have been in a Baptist church for a couple of months now, and some of the hyms are very beautiful, and some of them are very fun to sing (I'll fly away being my favorite).. How do these appeal to the flesh any less than "the heart of worship" or "Depth of mercy"..

I just dont get it.

 

Ha. I did try to start a similar discussion on the book but that kinda died. Anyway, thanks Aaron. It was a very insightful book.

And there;s a section in there about how the older mature christians get crowded out of the very churches they founded. (And this ties in with another thread in this forum...) It's like they are made to feel that they are hindering the work of the Holy Spirit by resisting the change into CCM.

 

Su Wei

First, crowding older Christians out, especially the ones that are actively serving Jesus and are grounded in God's Word... Is a *very* dumb thing! Period.

I feel very strongly that, generally speaking, Strength is in the Youth, Stability and Guidance is in the Older Mature believers.

Secondly, IMHO, nothing hinders the 'long term' functioning on the Holy Spirit than a lack of Solid Word-Based Mature Believers.

And, this is very seldom found in the young even if they've been Christians since 5.

Having said that...

I have always wanted to find a cartoonist who could draw me a cut-away of a construction site showing three sub levels: Salvation, Water Baptism, and Spirit Baptism (Apologies to my 'very' Baptist Friends.)

On top of this foundation is an old person sitting in a rocking chair.

Off to the side is a pile of building materials with the tarp pulled back to reveal part of the stack labeled as: Gold; Silver; Precious Stones...

The Main caption would read: I've been in 'The Way' for 20 years...

The secondary caption would be a reference to:

Looking over the top of all this a 'kilroy' character is saying: 'Yep, been on site for 20 years and ain't built a thing...'


The point being that unless the older believers **continue** in Christian Maturity they really aren't a loss if they are pushed out.

But, those that *are* continuing in Christian Growth and Maturity are worth far more that Silver ad Gold.

It would be wise for both age groups to learn to accept 'cultural' differences and work together for the common goal of reaching the lost and building one another up in the most Holy Faith.

Lastly, The sad fact is, is that the demographics of the available bodies to fill churches is changing.

If we do not adapt our method of presenting the Truth of the Gospel the old people will die off leaving us with empty churches!

I am not saying to compromise or defile one's conscience. Never!

But, if you can't find the Peace of God in a **slow** drift towards an 'adapted' service...

You may well have to accept the fact that one day in the not too distant future you will have to sell your facility.

There will always be enough to keep some 'fully traditional' churches open...

But, how far down can the *real* church dwindle without discipled parishioners and still be the Salt that makes earth savory to God?

 

I agree with much of what Dan Lucarini says though much of what he calls traditional worship seems to be more of that of the Reformed Tradition. The Apostolic Church and the Church Fathers had a more balance between Word and the Lord's Supper. He is correct that the Word of God should be central instead of Music but we must not forget the Eucharist either that is often mininmized. I think weekly Communion along with a greater emphasis on the Word of God is the key to balanced worship.

The one part I think he is wrong on is,

I think the Cont have the better idea but the wrong method. Worship is more than just Preaching. Preaching plays a major, major part of worship but is only one part. Adding more Responsive and Unison readings into Worship I think does usher people into the presence of God (though most Baptists will fight against this)whereas the Contemporary worship too often focuses on emotions.

 

I thought the primary purpose of worship was worship. Are you telling me that in Baptist churches the primary purpose of worship is to get ready to listen to the preacher? Worhsipping God is a mere precursor to the really important stuff? [/QB][/QUOTE]


The "Song Service" as it is frequently called, is not necessarily worship. It is also praise.

Worshipping is humbling ourselves before God and thanking Him for Himself and His goodness to us.

 

The "praise and worship" crowd needs to spend some time studying church history (not that the rest of us couldn't use it also). To hear them talk and to watch them, you'd think that they are ushering in the first period of worship that the church has ever seen.

Surely Martin Luther and Charles Wesley couldn't have "worshipped"...they didn't even have overhead projectors and canned background music.

 

I can recall growing up that the elder christians came into church worshiping....singing songs, shaking hands and even shouting.

The songs that we sung, though considered somber and depressing to most modern churches, were used to "sober" our thoughts and help us to concentrate on the reason we came to worship.

We didn't (and don't) have projectors.

 

Pennsylvania Jim said:

Surely Martin Luther and Charles Wesley couldn't have "worshipped"...they didn't even have overhead projectors and canned background music.

If you believe that contemporary models of worship are superficial, do you think you make your point with this kind of superficial criticism?

 

I believe we are ushering in the first period of concentrated vertical worship music that the church has ever seen.

 

Huh?